SM - Edward-Controlling? Yes. Manipulative? Let's go.

General discussion about the Twilight Series Universe.
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Tennyo
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SM - Edward-Controlling? Yes. Manipulative? Let's go.

Post by Tennyo » Mon May 07, 2007 6:57 pm

I wanted to take this out of the Edward topic, because where he's concerned there are never enough topics.
And I know it's only one line, but we only have one chapter, so it counts as what, a chapter from the whole book? :D
Edward's comment to Bella about being able to sign her name better than she can-what do you think of that?
I guess it's no secret that I'm incensed. I was taught to think that mail and a person's personal signature are sacred. If someone I loved even joked half-seriously about forging my name, I'd vocally kick their behind, I don't care how much I love them.
If Edward really does sign Bella's name on that application, he gavee heer consent to something she didn't necessarily agree to.
Gosh, to me it's like identity theft!
Thoughts?
EDIT: What started out as one question became an entire debate over whether Edward is controlling, jealous, patronizing, protective or possibly all of the above.

YAHOO! Eclipse EDIT. I felt the need to write up this disclaimer after Eclipse came out:

I understand that more than one person in Eclipse was a manipulating butthead (or genius. Or Buttheadgenius). And I acknowledge that I'm going straight for one character. But the purpose of this thread has always been "Do not idoloize Edward. The guy has issues." People are already attacking Bella left and right. Jacob should be hiding from the pirated crowbar army. But already Edward is being smoothed over. So even though I may not abhore the guy as much as I did, I would like to keep it going out there that this is not someone who is ideal. And not someone you should be looking for with the specific goal of marrying. Here's why: (jump to around page 45 for the Eclipse part of the discussion)

Also, as a request, I would prefer not to use other people's manipulative behaviour to "negate" Edward's. However, I know that this is not my own personal palace and everyone has a right to argue the way they want.

And I just want to remind everyone that they're free to open up their own "Jacob-Buttheadgenius?" threads or "Alice-Enabler?" (which may just be mine) threads. That's what the lex is here for.

Anyhoo, long way around to say "Yes, we know we're only going for one character. We have our reasons."
Last edited by Tennyo on Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Klaxons » Mon May 07, 2007 7:04 pm

I don't believe it said anywhere in the chapter that he had actually signed her name for anything, it simply implied that he'd be able to sign her name is she didn't. I don't think that he'd become so controlling he forged her signature for a college application. It just seems a bit excessive for something as simple as a college application.

I, personally, don't see forging a signature as that big of a deal, but I forged my fathers signature loads of times when I was in school for permission forms, late slips, homework slips, et cetera. I don't think it's that big a deal, unless the person has no clue the forgery has occurred. And I'm more than certain Bella knows Edward is helping her with her college applications...Also, Bella seems kind of indifferent to the entire process; to me, it seems as though the only thing she cares about is being with Edward where ever they go. I'm sure that Bella agrees to sending in the applications, I mean, it's not like the college's are going to sign her up for something inappropriate, and also, she doesn't have to go to any of the college's she applies for. I think it'd only be a major thing is Edward did forge her signature and sent it to, say, a bank or something. Ha, bad example, but I'm sure you get what I mean...
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Post by ECABS » Mon May 07, 2007 7:05 pm

I understand what you mean by the identity theft...and had that been anyone else i would agree with you...

Technically she has consented because she knows what he's going to do and she didn't object.

When it comes to my husband - I wish he could sign my name better - there ARE times in real life when this would actually be useful...

I actually would appreciate the fact that I don't have to fill out the whole app - I hate filling out applications! But he would need my consent if he was doing it in other places, if at all!

Look at the Cullen's habits...forgery isn't a big deal for them...signing for Bella for something he thinks is a good thing for her won't seem wrong at all to Edward!

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Post by firefly » Mon May 07, 2007 7:15 pm

Eh. It's very Ephram Brown of him -- he wrote Amy's Princeton essay for her. I believe Amy's father was in on it too.

It's not like he's committing credit card fraud (unlike a certain two someones we all love) or signing away her rights.

This at least gives her the option to turn down schools, which she couldn't do if she never applies to them in the first place.

It _is_ an invasion of privacy, but not one I'd stone him for :wink: . I think in this case, he is perhaps thinking more objectively than Bella -- pointing out that she might want to go to college for a semester or two. Just to see what it's like. And she may want to keep her options open, school wise.

Margaret: I can sign the President's name. I have his signature down pretty good.
Leo: You can sign the President's name?
M: Yes!
L: On a document removing him from power and handing it to someone else?
M: Yeah! . . . Or do you think the White House Counsel would say that's a bad idea?
L: I think the White House Counsel would say that's a coup d'etat!
M: I'd probably end up doing some time for that.
L: I would think.
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Post by teak » Mon May 07, 2007 7:29 pm

I took it more like he was joking around with her. She seems more incensed that he is making her apply everywhere, when she feels she won't need it due to becoming a vampire. I too, like the fact he is trying to get her to keep her options open. I didn't get the feeling he would really sign her name, just making a point to Bella to take the process more seriously.
She wasn't too bothered by Charlie opening up her mail either; just made a joke out of it when she pointed out it is a fed. offense.

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Post by GoldenEyesRock » Mon May 07, 2007 8:03 pm

I don't think Bella was upset because he forged her signature -even though that's wrong, but goodness knows, the Cullens are WAY more than criminals now- but because she didn't necessarily want to apply. She didn't stop him, though, which I think makes it okay. I think Bella's pretty lenient on the whole college thing.

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Post by firefly » Mon May 07, 2007 8:17 pm

GoldenEyesRock wrote:I don't think Bella was upset because he forged her signature -even though that's wrong, but goodness knows, the Cullens are WAY more than criminals now- but because she didn't necessarily want to apply. She didn't stop him, though, which I think makes it okay. I think Bella's pretty lenient on the whole college thing.

Does Bella ever get upset at Edward? Or hold a grudge?

Although, I thought she was pretty adamant about the school thing. And, really, in this case isn't applying to college and Edward forging Bella's signature the same thing? If she refuses and he goes ahead and sends in the applications with the fake signatures, it amounts to the same thing, IMO.

Edward's being rather high-handed about this -- and Jacob. But with regards to the schools, I'm not as against it or bothered by it because it's not to me such a big deal in the grand scheme of things. While not being able to see Jacob is something that would I think have a greater effect on Bella, but this might be for a different topic.
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Post by Bellen » Mon May 07, 2007 8:18 pm

This may be sort of out there,but when Edward says that he can write Bella's signature better than her, it may be subtle allusion to his belief that he is better at making decisions for her than she is for herself, given what a person's signature symbolizes: their decision and approval.

I don't know if Edward meant that or not but it is a double meaning that popped out at me as a possibility. Maybe he meant he has better handwriting or something. Or that he's so good at faking her signature that he can 'write it better than her.'

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Post by Tennyo » Mon May 07, 2007 8:27 pm

Bellen wrote:This may be sort of out there,but when Edward says that he can write Bella's signature better than her, it may be subtle allusion to his belief that he is better at making decisions for her than she is for herself, given what a person's signature symbolizes: their decision and approval.

I don't know if Edward meant that or not but it is a double meaning that popped out at me as a possibility. Maybe he meant he has better handwriting or something. Or that he's so good at faking her signature that he can 'write it better than her.'

I had the same impression.
I'm sorry guys, but I stick to this being a line you don't cross. I fill out forms for my mom all the time, and she just signs the bottom.
What gets me is that the idea of mail and signatures being sacred is an old-fashioned rule (or manners), and wouldn't Edward be taught that?
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Post by firefly » Mon May 07, 2007 8:27 pm

Bellen wrote:This may be sort of out there,but when Edward says that he can write Bella's signature better than her, it may be subtle allusion to his belief that he is better at making decisions for her than she is for herself, given what a person's signature symbolizes: their decision and approval.

Yes, signatures do equal consent. And it is rather patronizing that he thinks he knows better than she does... But, again, the signature issue doesn't bother me nearly as much as his stance on Jacob. Which is far more uncompromising than Charlie's feelings about Edward. I think mostly because decisions about schools are not nearly as permanent as becoming a vampire, and in this, I'm more inclined to see it the way Edward does: If nothing else, applying to multiple schools gives Bella more of a choice. What will it hurt to apply?
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