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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:13 pm
by twilightluver1901
Well Alice didn't really agree with Edward on all of them leaving so she can't be blamed for that. Bella should've stood up more especially for Jacob. Maybe it's because she was scared Edward would get mad and leave her again (which I know is really pointless but still..)

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:15 pm
by Raphael1989
meganj924 wrote:
holding.out.for.jacob wrote:well she should, but she shouldn't do it for other people you know? she should do it for her. i've said it before and i'll say it again, bella needs to become her own person. she needs to figure out what is her and say "hey. this is me. if it doesn't work for you, whatever." but she's so afraid of people being mad at her, and she blames herself for everything, which i think may be part of that. part of being a grown up is knowing when you've done wrong and admitting and apologizing for it, and part of it is knowing when other people messed up, and making them deal with it, so that people don't just walk all over you, you know? she's really not a very good role model for little girls right now....
Exactly.

Can I use a really crude expression? Please and thank you, mommy :). You can yell at me later if you want me too.

What I was going to say is... Bella needs to grow some balls and be a man. If life sucks, get over it and rub some dirt in it (awwww. She's The Man. I love that movie), instead of whining and crying and panicking. Just buck up and deal with it. She needs to learn to stick up for herself. She needs to learn to stick up for the people she loves (she usually lets Edward/the Cullens say mean things about her wolf friends, and vice versa). She needs to grow up!!!!! She tends to let people walk all over her, and she worries so much about what other people are going to think and do. I'm not saying you should disregard other people's feelings and be selfish-- I'm saying that there is a point in which you need to be your own person. I don't like hurting other people either-- I always feel terrible if I do-- but that doesn't mean I falter and let people walk all over me. I care about other people, but I still defend and stick up for myself when I need to. I don't let people guilt or pressure me into doing things. And that's something Bella hasn't really mastered, as of yet... (IMO).
Ditto. I mean, come on! She needs to play the game, or get out of the way!

First, she makes all these choices that land her right in the middle of all this supernatural monster crap, and then she spends the rest of her time (the time not spent making bad decisions) complaining about how scary and horrible everything is!!

Jeez, girl. Somebody needs to explain to Bella about cause and effect. Or how actions result in consequences...

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:15 pm
by holding.out.for.jacob
no no, honey. she needed to stand up to alice about jacob.

i know she was scared of edward leaving again. but that's just it. she didn't have to be afraid of that with jake. and that, to me, means she owes him a little loyalty.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:20 pm
by twilightluver1901
Sorry that probably came out confusing or I was just confused about what you were saying when you said that Bella should say "he's done everything you and your brother didn't".

The problem with Bella is that she has to choose between her best friend and her boyfriend because it's most likely going to end up that way. If Bella does become a vampire I think it will be very hard for her and Jacob to be friends especially because of the treaty.

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:25 pm
by meganj924
Raphael1989 wrote:
Ditto. I mean, come on! She needs to play the game, or get out of the way!

First, she makes all these choices that land her right in the middle of all this supernatural monster crap, and then she spends the rest of her time (the time not spent making bad decisions) complaining about how scary and horrible everything is!!

Jeez, girl. Somebody needs to explain to Bella about cause and effect. Or how actions result in consequences...
I'm going to be crude again :D.

If you can't handle being burned, get the hell out of the fire. Haha. Really though. You can't play in fire and expect to come out unscathed every time. Sometimes you'll get burned, other times you might get scorched. So you are right. She needs to play the game, or get out.

I love that second paragraph. Bella really doesn't understand cause and affect at all. Really, it's not hard to figure out. And it's like... so many of her problems are her own stupid fault. And all she does is sit there and whine and complain about them. She doesn't do anything (except for during the battle of Eclipse, where she decides to pull her whole third wife moment. But honestly, that was just stupid on her part. If you are going to do something, do it intelligently). She complains about danger... but it's her own fault she's got involved in dangerous things.

Haha, I probably sound so heartless. But I have a hard time having compassion for people who create their own problems then don't do anything about them other than whine. But I'm naturally a fairly forgiving person (I just don't forget things), so maybe Bella will be able to redeem herself somehow. And I guess it's understandable that she's idiotic sometimes. She has a lot of pressure. But as I said, I have a hard time feeling compassion for her when so much of it is her own fault...

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:28 pm
by twilightluver1901
I'm curious (and i promise i'm not disagreeing here or anything)

Ok first of all Bella's danger is her fault but most of that is her clutziness so I was just wondering if you had anything to add to that and any other problems she complains about a lot.

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:33 am
by snarky
My impression of Bella's clumsiness, perceived sense of responsbility, etc. is that she comes across as almost proud of the fact that she's got these traits. She mentions them ad nauseum as if to say, "Hey, look at me! I've got problems! I'm special!" which kind of goes back to my "Bella is more self-absorbed than anything else" argument.

And that Third Wife deal? I'm sorry, I'm not sold on Bella's near act of self-sacrifice there considering there was so much wibbling on her part. Egad, child! Time's a-wasting! Just cut yourself with the rock already!

The message I got out of it was that Bella likes the romantical notions associated with being the Third Wife because she's under this mistaken notion that she's some kind of martyr when it should be Edward and Jacob who deserve that title for putting up with her nonsense.

The girl needs to take a long, hard look at herself. And Edward and Jacob really should stop feeding her delusions.

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:29 pm
by meganj924
snarky wrote:My impression of Bella's clumsiness, perceived sense of responsbility, etc. is that she comes across as almost proud of the fact that she's got these traits. She mentions them ad nauseum as if to say, "Hey, look at me! I've got problems! I'm special!" which kind of goes back to my "Bella is more self-absorbed than anything else" argument.

And that Third Wife deal? I'm sorry, I'm not sold on Bella's near act of self-sacrifice there considering there was so much wibbling on her part. Egad, child! Time's a-wasting! Just cut yourself with the rock already!

The message I got out of it was that Bella likes the romantical notions associated with being the Third Wife because she's under this mistaken notion that she's some kind of martyr when it should be Edward and Jacob who deserve that title for putting up with her nonsense.

The girl needs to take a long, hard look at herself. And Edward and Jacob really should stop feeding her delusions.
Haha yeah no kidding. I mean Edward's been alive for a century, and Bella's the best he can find? That's harsh, but honestly...

And Jake is just too nice. He puts up with her crap time and time and time again. She treats him like dirt time and time and time again, and is a terrible friend time and time again. Our Jake just loves her too much, and I can't for the life of me understand WHY! Haha :).

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:15 pm
by Raphael1989
meganj924 wrote:
snarky wrote:My impression of Bella's clumsiness, perceived sense of responsbility, etc. is that she comes across as almost proud of the fact that she's got these traits. She mentions them ad nauseum as if to say, "Hey, look at me! I've got problems! I'm special!" which kind of goes back to my "Bella is more self-absorbed than anything else" argument.

And that Third Wife deal? I'm sorry, I'm not sold on Bella's near act of self-sacrifice there considering there was so much wibbling on her part. Egad, child! Time's a-wasting! Just cut yourself with the rock already!

The message I got out of it was that Bella likes the romantical notions associated with being the Third Wife because she's under this mistaken notion that she's some kind of martyr when it should be Edward and Jacob who deserve that title for putting up with her nonsense.

The girl needs to take a long, hard look at herself. And Edward and Jacob really should stop feeding her delusions.
Haha yeah no kidding. I mean Edward's been alive for a century, and Bella's the best he can find? That's harsh, but honestly...

And Jake is just too nice. He puts up with her crap time and time and time again. She treats him like dirt time and time and time again, and is a terrible friend time and time again. Our Jake just loves her too much, and I can't for the life of me understand WHY! Haha :).
Maybe because he doesn't see what she IS, but rather, what she COULD be?

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:30 pm
by snarky
Raphael1989 wrote:Maybe because he doesn't see what she IS, but rather, what she COULD be?
Then I must say that Jacob's really got scenic eyes. =P