Jacob Black Phase #5

Discussion on the various characters throughout the books.
meganj924
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Post by meganj924 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:31 pm

RunsWithWolves wrote:
meganj924 wrote:Don't worry, I agree, I was just saying that people who blame Jake 100% should blame Bella too.

Jake had every right in the world to feel used and hurt and betrayed at the end of New Moon. Bella ditched him, treated him like crap, and pretty much abandoned him.

Jake can't help his feelings for Bella anymore than she can help her feelings for Edward. It's not exactly his fault that he fell in love with her. You can't really help who you love, right?
No, you can't choose who you fall in love with. And sorry, I got worked up..I wasn't arguing with you (I know you're a true Jacob fan). Its just a sensitive topic for me. I get beyond mad when people say that Jacob butted in on Bella & Edward relationship and that he had no right to do so. Ugh! :evil:
No kidding. Most Jake haters tell me they hate him because he "got in the way of Bella and Edward". Well, yeah, he did, but with good reasons! He was trying to do the right and noble thing!
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Post by snarky » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:32 pm

Liv-wa wrote:
snarky wrote:
Liv-wa wrote:
meganj924 wrote: Yeah, Jake hurts Bella. But Bella hurt Jake. Jake only puts on his "Sam" face when he's incredibly hurt and in pain. In my eyes, Bella deserves every ounce of pain she's gotten. She's hurt everyone-- the Cullens, Edward, Charlie, Renee, Jacob, her werewolf friends. Everyone. This sounds heartless of me, but I really don't care if Bella was hurt by Jake. She deserved it (IMO). After all she put Jake through, I have a hard time feeling bad for her or worrying about her feelings getting hurt (haha I feel like such a snob now).
YES
No one seems to get that fact. Bella played Jacob to the point where he doesn't want to come back. That doesn't exactly seem best-friend material to me. She said all through Eclipse that what she was doing was wrong...well if you know it's wrong WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING IT?
I'm leaning towards the belief that Bella keeps doing that because although she says it, it,s just lip service and deep down inside, she doesn't actually accept or believe that she's the one responsible for all the hurt. How else can you explain her crying over it for one night like the world's going to end then waking up the next morning in Edward's arms and acting as if everything's okay.
But if she doesn't believe it why does she keep bringing it up over, and over again. At this point it is gettign slightly repetitive. I find it really hard to think that Bella is shallow-minded enough to not really believe she is the one causing Jake's pain. I mean, I'm far from Bella's biggest fan, but that's seems a little to low...even for her.
She brings up a lot of things over and over and over again. In the books, she keeps highlighting her clumsiness, she talks about how responsible she is, what an old soul she is (I always thought old soul meant wise person, obviously not when it comes to Bella) yadda yadda yadda to the point where I'm getting the impression that she is actually preening over all this.

The message I'm getting from the books and her POV is that Bella is an awfully self-centred person with an enormously inflated view of herself. Sure, she says stuff like "why would Edward want me, he's a god and I'm not", but that doesn't take up a whole lot of airtime in her world and just comes across as an afterthought by SM (oops, Bella's been whining for the last 16 pages, I'd better put in a redeeming value here).

I'm just getting the vibe that she's not truly recognising the issues at hand, just like how she doesn't think about the consequences of becoming a vampire, how hurt her parents will be when she distances herself from them after she becomes a vampire, how she doesn't value her friends (Jessica has her bad moments, but she did try to give Bella a chance in NM which the latter promptly blew and didn't care about), how she can lead Jacob on for months while rationalising to herself that "if he holds my hand but I don't think we're bf/gf, it's ok" and a million other things out there.

So uh, yeah. She can be that shallow minded and thinks the world revolves around her (right before big vampire war: kiss me, Edward, make me forget my name because I kind of feel guilty for kissing Jacob. Oh. Come. On. Lah.). Pffftt...
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Post by Liv-wa » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:32 pm

meganj924 wrote:
RunsWithWolves wrote:
meganj924 wrote:Don't worry, I agree, I was just saying that people who blame Jake 100% should blame Bella too.

Jake had every right in the world to feel used and hurt and betrayed at the end of New Moon. Bella ditched him, treated him like crap, and pretty much abandoned him.

Jake can't help his feelings for Bella anymore than she can help her feelings for Edward. It's not exactly his fault that he fell in love with her. You can't really help who you love, right?
No, you can't choose who you fall in love with. And sorry, I got worked up..I wasn't arguing with you (I know you're a true Jacob fan). Its just a sensitive topic for me. I get beyond mad when people say that Jacob butted in on Bella & Edward relationship and that he had no right to do so. Ugh! :evil:
No kidding. Most Jake haters tell me they hate him because he "got in the way of Bella and Edward". Well, yeah, he did, but with good reasons! He was trying to do the right and noble thing!
Hear, Hear! To sensible people...who have good thoughts [:
[size=75]
At camp for two weeks...then I'll be back fighting Jake in full force...how can anyone say anything against him now???
Things to do today:
[list=1][*]Look at the Lexicon
[*]Support Jacob
[*]Breathe[/list][/size]
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RunsWithWolves
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Post by RunsWithWolves » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:37 pm

You know I could easily say that EDWARD got in the way of Bella & Jacob in NM! But you don't hear many people saying that one...

Jacob is truly treated so unfair :cry:
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Post by CamberXite » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:45 pm

^ Yeah thats what a few of my friends think too. But Bella was never over Edward.
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Post by Manta » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:46 pm

Are we talking about whose to blame for what happened in the end of eclipse?

If so, I think it is both Jacob and Bella's fault.Mostly Jacob's though. He knew he was fighting a lost cause. I don't blame him for fighting at all, but he knew his chances were slim. Even in New Moon when Edward was gone he knew that he had littlw chances to be with her. He knew how she felt about Edward all along, especially where he came back.

If that wasn't what we were talking about, sorry, um...you can just disregard this post! :D

RunsWithWolves
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Post by RunsWithWolves » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:48 pm

CamberXite wrote:^ Yeah thats what a few of my friends think too. But Bella was never over Edward.
So? Jacob cant help how Bella feels..And besides, Bella was the one who ran off to Jacob! And Bella was thinking of taking things further with Jacob before Edward returned.
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RunsWithWolves
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Post by RunsWithWolves » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:52 pm

Manta wrote:Are we talking about whose to blame for what happened in the end of eclipse?

If so, I think it is both Jacob and Bella's fault.Mostly Jacob's though. He knew he was fighting a lost cause. I don't blame him for fighting at all, but he knew his chances were slim. Even in New Moon when Edward was gone he knew that he had littlw chances to be with her. He knew how she felt about Edward all along, especially where he came back.

If that wasn't what we were talking about, sorry, um...you can just disregard this post! :D
Ugh...Where to start?!

First off, I think Jacob is the least to blame.

Again I'll say..EDWARD LEFT BELLA and he wanted her to move on. Bella ran to Jacob, and Jacob was a wonderful friend to her. He was giving Bella her life back (and somewhere along the line, Jacob fell in love with Bella). And Bella was considering taking things further with Jacob (and she was IN LOVE with Jacob too - she was just in denial). Then Edward waltzed back into Bellas life and Jacob was thrown aside. Jacob had a right to fight for Bella in Eclipse, regardless of whether it was a lost cause or not.
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Post by CamberXite » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:55 pm

^ Edward didn't "return", Bella went to Volterra to save him. She made the choices.. Its not like she didn't have a choice. She chose to go to Edward.
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Post by Manta » Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:56 pm

I know you're debating me, but I really do agree with most of the things you said. I agree he had a right to fight. AS long as he knew (which he did) that his chances were slim. WhaT i'm saying is that when Jake was so heartbroken at the end...that was partially his fault. ..because he knew what he was getting himself into.

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