Jacob Black Phase #5

Discussion on the various characters throughout the books.
RunsWithWolves
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
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Location: Going where I need to go to defend Jacob Black

Post by RunsWithWolves »

sunandair wrote:How do you think Jacob will return? What will bring him back? Will Sam convince him? Will something happen to Sam and so Jacob must return to take over as Alpha? Will something happen to Billy? Will he return of his own accord? What are other possibilities? Which would you prefer?
I hope Jacob comes back on his own accord to set things straight. I think Jacob is mature enough to realize that he cant escape his problems. I believe he'll come back to face them when hes ready, and things will be put right (as much as they can be now :? )
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RunsWithWolves
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Location: Going where I need to go to defend Jacob Black

Post by RunsWithWolves »

Alice_at_Heart wrote:
Also, Jacob sees it as dying because her heart WILL stop and since Jacob is a natural enemy of the vampire..He doesn't understand how Bella could be one of THEM and still be HER, ya know?
But if for some reason, Bella came running back to him as a vampire, I think that Jacob would do [A SINGLE LETTER? WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE USE A SINGLE LETTER TO REPLACE AN ENTIRE WORD?????????]everything[/A SINGLE LETTER? WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE USE A SINGLE LETTER TO REPLACE AN ENTIRE WORD?????????] in his power to...not be repulsed by her. Not reject her. Not kill her. Not hate her. To love her. To help her. To be with her. I have no doubt that Jake would do this. He just can't see it now. And werewolves and vampires don't [A SINGLE LETTER? WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE USE A SINGLE LETTER TO REPLACE AN ENTIRE WORD?????????]have[/A SINGLE LETTER? WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYONE USE A SINGLE LETTER TO REPLACE AN ENTIRE WORD?????????] to be mortal enemies. Look at Seth and Edward. Although I imagine Seth isn't in love with Edward.

Hmm. I'm no longer sure which side I am arguing... Who's side am I on anymore? :shock:
Haha..I agree..If Jacob meets vampire Bella, I still think he'll still love her and want to see her. And yes, a friendship is possible. But its not always as simple as it should be...

What side are you arguing for you ask? *uses Jedi mind trick* You were arguing for Jacob Black, of course! Because he's your favorite!
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Liv-wa
Learning to Love Green
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Post by Liv-wa »

RunsWithWolves wrote:
sunandair wrote:How do you think Jacob will return? What will bring him back? Will Sam convince him? Will something happen to Sam and so Jacob must return to take over as Alpha? Will something happen to Billy? Will he return of his own accord? What are other possibilities? Which would you prefer?
I hope Jacob comes back on his own accord to set things straight. I think Jacob is mature enough to realize that he cant escape his problems. I believe he'll come back to face them when hes ready, and things will be put right (as much as they can be now :? )
I really hope he comes back on his own accord to. It would be sad if he was forced to come back and even less happy being back in La Push. It wouldn't help him or anyone else.
[size=75]
At camp for two weeks...then I'll be back fighting Jake in full force...how can anyone say anything against him now???
Things to do today:
[list=1][*]Look at the Lexicon
[*]Support Jacob
[*]Breathe[/list][/size]
[url=http://www.liv-wa.webs.com][img]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj260/IxRunxWithxVamps/banner.gif[/img][/url]
RunsWithWolves
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:37 pm
Location: Going where I need to go to defend Jacob Black

Post by RunsWithWolves »

Liv-wa wrote:
RunsWithWolves wrote:I hope Jacob comes back on his own accord to set things straight. I think Jacob is mature enough to realize that he cant escape his problems. I believe he'll come back to face them when hes ready, and things will be put right (as much as they can be now :? )
I really hope he comes back on his own accord to. It would be sad if he was forced to come back and even less happy being back in La Push. It wouldn't help him or anyone else.
Agreed. Last thing Jacob needs is more stress and more heartache. I think it would be great for his healing process if he CHOSE to come back and make things right. Plus, (if im 100% honest) I would respect him that much more if he did this.
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snarky
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Post by snarky »

Not to be mean or anything, but I find it strange how anybody can miss out what I feel are glaring facts in the book like:

1) Jacob has already accepted that Edward gets Bella, it's the <b>Bella dying and rising again as a vampire</b> part that he cannot handle

2) Edward's special qualities and "good" traits are largely due to him being a long-lived vampire, whereas Jacob's are intrinsic to him - he's already intuitive, mature and understanding even without being a werewolf

3) Jacob's been incredibly strong and mature for a 16-year-old boy

4) (off topic, but I still have to say this) Leah's suffered more than everybody else in this series (except maybe Rosalie and Alice but the latter doesn't count because she doesn't remember anything) so she may not be able to help being nasty

Someone enlighten me, please?
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<i>Jacob + Bella = 3KG Sad</i>
Hum paas hai phir bhi kitni hai dooriyan
Jism tu, jaan main, teri pehchaan main
Milke bhi na mile, yeh hai kaisa bharam
Yeh hai tere karam, kabhi khushi kabhi gham
Liv-wa
Learning to Love Green
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Post by Liv-wa »

RunsWithWolves wrote:
Liv-wa wrote:
RunsWithWolves wrote:I hope Jacob comes back on his own accord to set things straight. I think Jacob is mature enough to realize that he cant escape his problems. I believe he'll come back to face them when hes ready, and things will be put right (as much as they can be now :? )
I really hope he comes back on his own accord to. It would be sad if he was forced to come back and even less happy being back in La Push. It wouldn't help him or anyone else.
Agreed. Last thing Jacob needs is more stress and more heartache. I think it would be great for his healing process if he CHOSE to come back and make things right. Plus, (if im 100% honest) I would respect him that much more if he did this.
Definately. If he comes back on his own mindset it shows that he is capable of overcoming the past.
[size=75]
At camp for two weeks...then I'll be back fighting Jake in full force...how can anyone say anything against him now???
Things to do today:
[list=1][*]Look at the Lexicon
[*]Support Jacob
[*]Breathe[/list][/size]
[url=http://www.liv-wa.webs.com][img]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj260/IxRunxWithxVamps/banner.gif[/img][/url]
RunsWithWolves
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:37 pm
Location: Going where I need to go to defend Jacob Black

Post by RunsWithWolves »

snarky wrote:Not to be mean or anything, but I find it strange how anybody can miss out what I feel are glaring facts in the book like:

1) Jacob has already accepted that Edward gets Bella, it's the <b>Bella dying and rising again as a vampire</b> part that he cannot handle

2) Edward's special qualities and "good" traits are largely due to him being a long-lived vampire, whereas Jacob's are intrinsic to him - he's already intuitive, mature and understanding even without being a werewolf

3) Jacob's been incredibly strong and mature for a 16-year-old boy

4) (off topic, but I still have to say this) Leah's suffered more than everybody else in this series (except maybe Rosalie and Alice but the latter doesn't count because she doesn't remember anything) so she may not be able to help being nasty

Someone enlighten me, please?
I agree, snarky, especially with the fact that he IS mature. I always found these obvious too (no offense to anyone, honestly!). Jacob is called immature WAY too much! He is actually VERY mature! His mother died when he was young, so he had to grow up fast and help take care of his dad. He learned to love Bella and be VERY forgiving with her. He was unwillingly thrust into the world of vampires and werewolves, and learned fast strong self-control, even better than Sam (IMO). And Jacob is no ordinary werewolf, but technically pack leader. Still Jacob keeps things together and makes the right choices (IMO).
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meganj924
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Location: Stabbing Edward Cullen with a pencil while learning a little survival one-oh-one from Jake ;).

Post by meganj924 »

Alice_at_Heart wrote:
sunandair wrote:Jacob is fighting to save Bella's life. To save her from becoming what he can only see as a monster. To save her from becoming his instinctual enemy. To save her from abandoning her family.
Yes. But Bella has made her choice. And when Jake fights for Bella, he hurts her. Not always on purpose. But someone is going to lose in this situation. As of now, it's Jake. Bella has said, "I know who I can't live without." If Jacob keeps fighting for Bella, he will only continue to hurt her.
But Bella made her choice without thinking it through. She just decided, "Hey! I'm going to become a vampire!" without taking the time to really think about what she was giving up. She didn't weigh her options. That's hardly an indication of a good decision, particularly when said decision will be completely irreversible. Becoming a vampire is not something to take lightly. It's permanent. There's no going back once it's made.

Jake realized that Bella hadn't taken the time to really think it through. She never fully comprehended what she was giving up until the very end of Eclipse, for goodness sake. He wanted her to know she had options. He wanted her to know she was giving up a lot. He wanted her to look at everything before she made such an irreversible choice.

If your best friend had been totally heartbroken beyond repair by some stupid boy, then had come crawling to you just to stay alive and functioning, then you found out the guy who had hurt her so badly was a vampire (aka the thing you hate most in the world), totally abandoned you and hurt you worse than you'd ever been hurt, THEN she went running back to the vampire the second he came back into the picture, THEN you found out she WANTED to become a vampire (aka become the thing you hate most in the world), THEN she treated you like crap and was a terrible friend, what would you do?

Yeah, Jake hurts Bella. But Bella hurt Jake. Jake only puts on his "Sam" face when he's incredibly hurt and in pain. In my eyes, Bella deserves every ounce of pain she's gotten. She's hurt everyone-- the Cullens, Edward, Charlie, Renee, Jacob, her werewolf friends. Everyone. This sounds heartless of me, but I really don't care if Bella was hurt by Jake. She deserved it (IMO). After all she put Jake through, I have a hard time feeling bad for her or worrying about her feelings getting hurt (haha I feel like such a snob now).

Also, he's not fighting just because he wants to be with her. Yeah, he wants her to pick him. But his number one goal is to save her life. Winning her heart would just be a bonus to him. If she becomes a vampire, she'll be his mortal enemy (and yeah, vamps and werewolves don't have to hate each other, but the whole Seth/Edward thing really pissed me off, so I don't want anymore "mingling" to happen). She'll be with the man he hates. His instincts will make him want to kill her and vice versa. Plus, he thinks becoming a vampire sounds absolutely horrible. Living forever on earth would be a slow form of suicide (IMO). And he hates that Bella is giving up so much for Edward. It doesn't seem right to him.

On top of that all, there is a good chance Bella could die. There are numerous times where the books say vampires easily and often lose control while attempting to transform people. Transforming someone is a tricky process. If she becomes a vampire, Jake will view her as somewhat dead, but even more painful to him is knowing that Edward might accidentally kill her. As he says in the epilogue of Eclipse, he can handle knowing Bella chose Edward over him. What he can't handle is knowing she is throwing her life away to become a vampire. He can't understand why she would want to.

In the end, though, it's best for Bella to know she's in love with Jake. It's better for her to know and realize what she was giving up (a human life, kids, a future, her family, etc) before she turns into a vampire. It's better for her to know beforehand, rather than have her realize one day after she's becoming a vampire that she loved Jake and could have been happy with him. She might not have regretted her choice, but she always would have had to wonder "what if". And that would absolutely suck.
Last edited by meganj924 on Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
meganj924
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Location: Stabbing Edward Cullen with a pencil while learning a little survival one-oh-one from Jake ;).

Post by meganj924 »

Going along with the other conversation...
Jake's not immature. Honestly. Think of your typical 16 year old boy, then compare them to Jake. Jake is only seen as "immature" by some people because he's compared to supposedly "perfect" Edward. Edward, who has had 100 years to perfect himself. Edward, who can hear people's thoughts and hence knows exactly what to say and how to act. Edward, who is working with advantages Jake doesn't have. It's hardly fair to compare Jake to Edward when it comes to maturity-- Edward is 108 years old. Jacob is 16.
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[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
Liv-wa
Learning to Love Green
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Post by Liv-wa »

meganj924 wrote: Yeah, Jake hurts Bella. But Bella hurt Jake. Jake only puts on his "Sam" face when he's incredibly hurt and in pain. In my eyes, Bella deserves every ounce of pain she's gotten. She's hurt everyone-- the Cullens, Edward, Charlie, Renee, Jacob, her werewolf friends. Everyone. This sounds heartless of me, but I really don't care if Bella was hurt by Jake. She deserved it (IMO). After all she put Jake through, I have a hard time feeling bad for her or worrying about her feelings getting hurt (haha I feel like such a snob now).
YES
No one seems to get that fact. Bella played Jacob to the point where he doesn't want to come back. That doesn't exactly seem best-friend material to me. She said all through Eclipse that what she was doing was wrong...well if you know it's wrong WHY ARE YOU STILL DOING IT?
[size=75]
At camp for two weeks...then I'll be back fighting Jake in full force...how can anyone say anything against him now???
Things to do today:
[list=1][*]Look at the Lexicon
[*]Support Jacob
[*]Breathe[/list][/size]
[url=http://www.liv-wa.webs.com][img]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj260/IxRunxWithxVamps/banner.gif[/img][/url]
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