Jacob Black - Phase 4

Discussion on the various characters throughout the books.
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meganj924
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Post by meganj924 »

Esme echo wrote:
LoyalTango wrote:I absolutely cannot stand it when people only see Jacob as "someone who interfers with Bella and Edward."
You know, that cuts two ways. People who can't admit that Edward has any good qualities are just as blind as the ones who dismiss Jacob out of hand.
Oh, Edward's got his good qualities. But in my eyes, the bad ones outweigh the good. I think there are more negative things to him than positive. But that's probably due to my personality.
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Bkwrm
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Post by Bkwrm »

[quote="Esme echo"][quote="meganj924"]
Okay, I'll bite. I have no doubt that Jacob and Bella would have become friends in a world where vampires didn't exist. HOWEVER, [i]most[/i] high school girls don't consider a romance with boys 2 to 3 years younger than them. (Jacob was born in 1990, Bella was born in September 1987.) Bella liked Jacob, but defintely considered him a youngster at the beach party in [i]Twilight[/i]. She didn't become more attracted to him until he started to mature, just prior to the werewolf gene kicking in. If there hadn't been vampires in their world, Jacob wouldn't have matured so quickly, and IMO Bella would have had a good friend, but no romance.


This is true. Also, I think people forget how much Bella *hates* Forks. An Edwardless Bella would (assuming she wasn't turned to a bloody pulp by Tyler's van) would probably have moved to sunny Florida with Mum and Phil as soon as it came up; and maybe visited Forks once every couple of years.

IMHO, it's a Catch-22. Human Jake wouldn't have caught Bella's eye, being two years her junior, and Werewolf Jake was just too late; she was irrevocably in love with Edward.
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Post by emmett_<3 »

Bkwrm wrote: This is true. Also, I think people forget how much Bella *hates* Forks. An Edwardless Bella would (assuming she wasn't turned to a bloody pulp by Tyler's van) would probably have moved to sunny Florida with Mum and Phil as soon as it came up; and maybe visited Forks once every couple of years.

IMHO, it's a Catch-22. Human Jake wouldn't have caught Bella's eye, being two years her junior, and Werewolf Jake was just too late; she was irrevocably in love with Edward.
See, that's where i think your wrong. She probably would've gotten to Jake before moving back, he would've changed things for her.

And Jake did approach her on the beach and she instantly liked him, she would've hung out with him a lot.

....I've feel like i've said this before.
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Esme echo
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Post by Esme echo »

This conversation has been 'way fun, but I've gotta get something constructive done today!

Thanks, meganj924 for the explanation. I totally see your point; our personalities and life experience are the reasons we have differences of opinion.

May I share a perception I gained after a few years of marriage? I kept waiting for my husband to start doing certain things a certain way--but he never did. I expected him to do those things that way because--obviously--that was the best way to do them! You can clearly see the fallacy of my thought process, but I did not at the time. Then one day, I heard this:
Everyone who marries has an unwritten list of expectations, and when their spouse fails to live up to those expectations, they tear up the spouse instead of the list.
I had an epiphany! I didn't even realize how dumb my expectations were. What I learned was there is more than one right way to do things.

I think there's more than one right way to regard a character, too. I think the best thing about Stephenie's writing is that it resonates with so many different kinds of people. There's something here for most people. They don't have to agree with each other to love the books and love (at least some) of the characters.

Ya'll have a great evening!
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LoyalTango
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Post by LoyalTango »

Esme echo wrote:
LoyalTango wrote:I absolutely cannot stand it when people only see Jacob as "someone who interfers with Bella and Edward."
You know, that cuts two ways. People who can't admit that Edward has any good qualities are just as blind as the ones who dismiss Jacob out of hand.
I've never ever said Edward has no good qualities, because he does. I mean, after all, he IS what got me first hooked on the books.
So, to be fair, I'll admit that the way he loves Bella is admirable, even if he doesn't do everything the way I'd like him to, I've got to admit it's obvious he loves her.
Which is very adorable. :]

Anyway, see yah, Esme echo!
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edwardxbellaxjake
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Post by edwardxbellaxjake »

LoyalTango wrote:
Esme echo wrote:
LoyalTango wrote:I absolutely cannot stand it when people only see Jacob as "someone who interfers with Bella and Edward."
You know, that cuts two ways. People who can't admit that Edward has any good qualities are just as blind as the ones who dismiss Jacob out of hand.
I've never ever said Edward has no good qualities, because he does. I mean, after all, he IS what got me first hooked on the books.
Yes. I too believe Edward is a decent "person". I truely admire his wanting to keep Bella safe, but obviously I just love Jacob more. I can't help it. I have a thing for the underdog. Always Always.

I'm the same way LoyalTango. Like I've mentioned before, I originally was a Edward fan. He was the one I read the books for too. Until I reread New Moon for the second time. Then they were even in my book. Finally I read Eclipse, and I found myself rooting for Jake (a lot a lot!)
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cataclysm
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Post by cataclysm »

RunsWithWolves wrote:
twilightluver1901 wrote:I believe they would've been really strong friends but nothing else.
If she fell in love with him even WITH Edward around..Why wouldn't she have loved him WITHOUT Edward in the picture? Because he wouldn't have put her back together after Edward broke her? Well they would have fallen in love on a happier note..thats all.. By spending ample time together. Jacob always really liked Bella. She liked him too. Jacob would have pushed something more, and Bella would have given in, especially with no 'But I love Edward' holding her back. And they would have been very happy :)
I agree with this. I'm taking Bella and Jake's observations in Eclipse as canon. They both agreed that they were eachother's natural course in a 'monsterless' world. They may have come together more gradually, but it would have happened. I don't see why SM would include that conversation in the text if she didn't mean it. It's not a casual observation to make or to just add into the book for filler. Neither bella nor jake said "maybe we would have gotten together". They were sure of it. I think she put it in there to help confirm the depth of Bella and Jake's bond. Maybe SM will clear that question up in a Q&A sometime.
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Post by cataclysm »

Esme echo wrote:snip

If Jacob really wanted to get completely away and not hear any of the voices from home, why didn't he just go somewhere, transform to human, and get a job? snip

Instead, he is in regular contact with the pack, and through Seth, with Bella (one way, of course). So does the fact that he does not just get a job and live somewhere else mean that he actually does not want to break all ties with La Push, Forks, and the people he loves? ... I'm not talking about Jacob's committment to the pack and his tribe, though. Or, maybe I am. Thoughts, anyone?
The reason he phased that last time in Eclipse was because his human feelings were so painful. When he phased he described being able to concentrate on just the things in his immediate vicinity (the leaves crunching under his feet, the forest, etc). It lessened his pain. I agree that some part of him doesn't want to lose ties with his family or bella though.
cataclysm
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Post by cataclysm »

Esme echo wrote:snip

It's amusing to me that so many people who love Jacob, hate Bella--who is the love of Jacob's life, and who Jacob would do just about anything for (except miss the fun of a battle, of course!). Would that be something like a character flaw in Jacob? Gasp! :shock:
Sarcasm duly noted. I think everyone agrees all the major characters are flawed, and that's part of why we like them. I prefer Jake, but still like bella and edward. I think in a monsterless world bella and jake would have been together. Am I overly distraught that since they don't live in that world, they won't be together? Not really. I'm okay as long as Jake is happy and finds his mate in BD.
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Post by emmett_<3 »

Woah! I just found the perfect Jacob song. Tell me if you disagree, but man, i thought it fit...mainly the chorus.

Everything You Want by Vertical Horizon

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Nt0bKL0rJZM
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