Jacob Black - phase 3

Discussion on the various characters throughout the books.
break4jake
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Post by break4jake »

twilightsagaaddict wrote: lol i know i was happy

-----------------

anyway-

yes i can understand that he wants her to stay human. and i can also understand that its not fully for their friendship, but for her and whats best for her. and in some of those ways he is mature. but he saw what it did to her the last time it ended with edward, and if he loves her, why is he putting her at that risk??? . i would not want the person i love to go through that much pain (especially if i had seen how bad it could get before). and if that ment giving them up, i would do it. but it seems that jacob is too immature in those ways that he is risking bellas happiness for his own.



He does give up on having bella, at the end of eclipse. with the whole king solomon thing, not cutting bella in half anymore. he gets that it's only hurting bella, and gives up on it.
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thanks to CamberXite for my awesome banner! and thanks to edward's vampheart to my adorable avatar!
*sings* Oh Jakey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind hey Jakey! *clap clap* Hey Jakey!

OMHJ-oh my hot jacob :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8-l944dw8 -watch my twilight-based song!
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break4jake
Hanging Up on Jessica
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 1:34 am
Location: daydreaming she was in la push or forks :)

Post by break4jake »

twilightsagaaddict wrote:
break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote: ok i read that, and it actually made me like him more. and i will agree with you on one thing. if you read it and liked him less than you had before, i can only imagine that you went into it saying "this wont change my mind", because i always liked him (nothing like edward though) but i liked him even more after reading it. i love him, but i think he is immature. and you cant even compare him to mike newton. mike tried to go out with her time and time again, but he never tried to tear her from her true love and (pretty much) ruin her life.
he might seem immature, but he's 16 years old!!!!!! of course he's going to seem immature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he's in love and trying to save her life, and he's going about it anyway he can. he's making it up as he goes along.

ahhm. bout mike. he has no clue bout vampires and werewolves, so you don't know what he would do if he did know about that stuff. he might've tried to stop bella from changing into a vampire, who knows? also, he still wanted bella. in eclipse when edward's away hunting, he asks bella out.
yes i know he tried to ask her out. but he didnt go saying "if you dont ask me to kiss you, im going to risk my life". and what makes it worse is that jacob knew that he probably would barely even get a scratch on him.
because he knew bella wasn't in love with him and that she was give up her life to be a vampire. you have to think about it from jake's perspective.

his getting bella to kiss him made her realize she does love jake to, and wants to be with him and have a human life. but, she wants her vampire life with edward more. it wouldve just them more if she realized after she was turned that she loved jacob. she wouldn't have known if she had made the right choice, and by then it would've been too late. and jake had to try, he wouldn't know if he had done something would've changed anything.
[img]http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/CamberXite/taylor_lautner-1.jpg[/img]
thanks to CamberXite for my awesome banner! and thanks to edward's vampheart to my adorable avatar!
*sings* Oh Jakey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind hey Jakey! *clap clap* Hey Jakey!

OMHJ-oh my hot jacob :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8-l944dw8 -watch my twilight-based song!
[img]http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3001/mybanner484e17775b014dx5.png[/img]
twilightsagaaddict
Learning to Love Green
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Location: on a romantic drive with edward...

Post by twilightsagaaddict »

break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote: lol i know i was happy

-----------------

anyway-

yes i can understand that he wants her to stay human. and i can also understand that its not fully for their friendship, but for her and whats best for her. and in some of those ways he is mature. but he saw what it did to her the last time it ended with edward, and if he loves her, why is he putting her at that risk??? . i would not want the person i love to go through that much pain (especially if i had seen how bad it could get before). and if that ment giving them up, i would do it. but it seems that jacob is too immature in those ways that he is risking bellas happiness for his own.



He does give up on having bella, at the end of eclipse. with the whole king solomon thing, not cutting bella in half anymore. he gets that it's only hurting bella, and gives up on it.


but what if she hadnt had edward through all those times???? what if edward had gotten so fed up that he just left (he wouldnt but a lot of guys would)??? its the thought that counts!!!!! and if you remember correctly , he said that and told the story basically saying "i love you more" and he admits that at the end!
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"and I'm a Virgo"
twilightsagaaddict
Learning to Love Green
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Location: on a romantic drive with edward...

Post by twilightsagaaddict »

break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote:
break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote: ok i read that, and it actually made me like him more. and i will agree with you on one thing. if you read it and liked him less than you had before, i can only imagine that you went into it saying "this wont change my mind", because i always liked him (nothing like edward though) but i liked him even more after reading it. i love him, but i think he is immature. and you cant even compare him to mike newton. mike tried to go out with her time and time again, but he never tried to tear her from her true love and (pretty much) ruin her life.
he might seem immature, but he's 16 years old!!!!!! of course he's going to seem immature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he's in love and trying to save her life, and he's going about it anyway he can. he's making it up as he goes along.

ahhm. bout mike. he has no clue bout vampires and werewolves, so you don't know what he would do if he did know about that stuff. he might've tried to stop bella from changing into a vampire, who knows? also, he still wanted bella. in eclipse when edward's away hunting, he asks bella out.
yes i know he tried to ask her out. but he didnt go saying "if you dont ask me to kiss you, im going to risk my life". and what makes it worse is that jacob knew that he probably would barely even get a scratch on him.
because he knew bella wasn't in love with him and that she was give up her life to be a vampire. you have to think about it from jake's perspective.

his getting bella to kiss him made her realize she does love jake to, and wants to be with him and have a human life. but, she wants her vampire life with edward more. it wouldve just them more if she realized after she was turned that she loved jacob. she wouldn't have known if she had made the right choice, and by then it would've been too late. and jake had to try, he wouldn't know if he had done something would've changed anything.
but what right does he have to make her kiss her??? i mean im not saying that i dont want the kiss to have happened, because i think it was good that it did, because it showed her what she really wanted. but i dont believe that he was thinking of her when he made her kiss him. he was being selfish.
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"and I'm a Virgo"
meganj924
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Post by meganj924 »

twilightsagaaddict wrote:
EdwardsDiamondHeart wrote:This is from Jacob Black thread 2... a reply:
Bella_S_Black wrote:EdwardsDiamondHeart, I can see why you would think that.
But Jacob was desperate in trying to save bellas life, and if it was your best friend, or someone you were inlove with, wouldn't you do everything in your power to save them too? His sole intention was always to save bella, and winning HER in the process would have been a bonus. Yes, he was jealous of edward for being with bella, but his attitude was more to do with the whole vampire thing.
And yes, bella does love edward. But she didn't realise she loved Jacob too. Jacob knew this, and he had to get her to realise this fact, as if she did, it MAY stop her from becoming a vampire. When she did realise this, we know that nothing did change in terms of her feelings about becoming a vampire, but it was better she knew. What would have happened if she didn't realise until after the transformation? more heartache for everyone. She needed to become a vampire with "all the cards layed out on the table" beforehand.
I don't know if I agree that that was his sole intention. From the start, he seemed to always have an eye for Bella and he started to act like that he would do whatever necessary to get her. I know that Edward did his fair share, and believe me... I kept wondering what he was thinking as well. Jacob just went about it in the wrong way. To me, there just didn't need to be so many derogatory statements made on Jacob's part. I do, however, agree that the whole kiss at the end of Eclipse had to happen for Bella to understand that she, with out a doubt, wanted to give up her life for Edward. I would just argue that he could have been a little childish about it all.
thank you!!!! i agree! about the kiss and all that! i mean with the kiss thing: i reall do think that that helped with her relationship with edward, because (while she finds her self in love with jacob) she finally figures out what she actually wants. and i like jacob (but im team edward) but i think that he was extremely immature. what i cant understand is this : if he loves her so much, why was he trying to screw up the best thing that ever happened to her (her relationship with edward)???
*Sighs*. Okay, Let me put you in Jake's shoes for a second. Just pretend you are in his situation.

Imagine that you are just a normal teenage kid. You enjoy life-- you have fun. You meet a new girl who's just moved to town and find out her dad is your dad's best friend. Your families go way back. You and this girl immediately click-- you get along well. You like her. But she has this boyfriend-- this really good looking and nice boyfriend. He's one of those Cullens, though. Your dad hates them, but you don't really get why. That freaky guy Sam seems to be pretty mad at them too, but you don't understand it. Sam freaks you out. You don't see a whole lot of Bella and her boyfriend together, so you don't know a whole lot about what their relationship is like. You don't know how attached they are.

You don't see too much of this girl, but her dad tells you that the boyfriend left her and now she's a complete mess. She hasn't left the house in months, other than for work and school. You are worried. One day she comes to see you with two motorcycles in tow. She looks horrible. She barely looks human. It hurts you to see how much pain she is in, but at the same time you are pretty pissed at her stupid ex-boyfriend for doing this to her. You don't know why he left her-- all you know is that whatever he did must have been horrible because she is always in so much pain. It angers you. You hate this guy for doing this to her. You and this girl start hanging out more and before too long you realize you are the only[/i] thing that can make her happy. She seems alive when she's with you. It makes you happy knowing you can make her happy. She soon becomes your best friend, and you realize you are falling in love with her. But you don't want to rush things-- you know she's still fragile. She just needs a friend for now, so that's what you'll be. You promise her you'll always be there.

After hanging out with her one day, you come home with a fever. That night you turn into this giant hairy wolf thing-- it freaks you out. You about kill your dad when you do. You don't know what the hell is going on. You are confused and scared and hurt. And you hear voices in your head. It's Sam. The guy who freaked you out. And all the sudden you learn it all-- you learn that you are a werewolf. You learn all about vampires. You learn that the reason you became a werewolf is probably because there are vampires around. You learn that that idiot who left your friend was a vampire. You hate vampires in the first place, but your hate is fueled on by the fact that he hurt your friend so badly. You know now why he left her, but you are still angry-- you don't like it when your friend is upset. And at first you really don't like being a werewolf. It bugs you. You are worried your friend is going to hate you if she finds out about what you are... you are worried you'll lose her. But you are afraid to be around her because you think you're dangerous. You haven't quite mastered self control yet, but you are trying. You feel like you are a traitor-- you are going back on your promise. You are hurting her just as badly as the stupid vampire did and you hate yourself for it. You hate hurting her. And you don't know what to do. You don't know how to stop it from happening. You are worried you'll kill her, but you can't leave her like that. You feel horrible. You eventually make up with her and she finds out you are a werewolf. Eventually this vampire comes back and you don't understand it. You don't understand how she can forgive him for what he did to her.

You find out that your friend wants to become a vampire. You don't know what the heck to do. Vampires are your enemy-- how can you stay friends with her if she's a vampire? How can she throw away life? Doesn't she want to get older? Have kids? Stay with her family? Be able to go in the sun? You don't understand it. It's like she's not even going to be your friend if she changes into a vampire. You don't know if she'll be the same. You know she loves the guy, but you do too. You can't just sit back and watch her throw her life away. You have to do something. And you need her to know she is in love with you-- you hope it will change her mind. You hope it will be enough. You doubt it, but you have to try. You don't want her to get married and changed into a vampire then realize afterwards that she loved you too-- what if she regretted her choice? You can't let her do that. You can't let her throw her life away-- you love her too much. And you know there are things you can give her that the vampire can't. You're also panicking that the vampire might accidentally kill her if he tries to change her-- all the stories say vampires lose control half of the time they try. You can't let her die. You can't. It will kill you if she does. And you know that you can give her so much more than the bloodsucker can. You can give her life. You can give her kids. You can give her the chance to grow older ("have those years mean something") and die. You wouldn't take away her parents. You wouldn't take away her friends. She could have a good life with you. So you think you are better for her. You don't quite realize how intense the feelings she and the vampire have for each other are since you haven't seen them together a whole lot.




OKAY.

Now that we've got that taken care of.

Jake doesn't realize until the end of Eclipse how much they love each other. He's not even convinced at first that Edward truly does love her-- remember in the tent he tells Edward that "I can't deny any longer that you love her in your own way"? He wasn't sure what Edward's intentions were before that. And can you blame him? He hasn't been around Bella and Edward together as much as Charlie, Alice, the rest of the Cullens, etc have been. He hasn't seen their relationship in action quite so much. And he can't understand why she would love a vampire; they are his natural enemy, after all, and he doesn't like Edward. He blames Edward partially for his becoming a werewolf (at first he doesn't like being a werewolf, he doesn't accept it until much later). He hates Edward because he thinks Edward is stealing the life away from the girl he loves. Of course he's rather pissed.

And he really honestly thinks he would be better for her-- that he's the better option in the long run. I agree with him on that; he can give Bella much more of a complete life than Edward can.

He doesn't realize until the end of Eclipse that Bella can't live without Edward. Remember? The book says he tells her, "Bella, I see now that you can't live without him". It says he tells her this gently. Not scolding. He understands at the end of Eclipse; he didn't understand before. That's why he gives up. He sees that it's definitely a lost cause. He sees that fighting is just hurting her more. He finally realizes it. So he promises no to "cut her in half" anymore.

He's not trying to "rip them apart" due to snotty 16 year old boy pervy reasons. He's not evil. He's not trying to hurt her. He's trying to save her. Plain and simple.

His giving up sealed the deal for me. It solidified my absolute adoration of him :). Lol. He showed maturity beyond his years in that moment, and absolute selflessness. At least in my opinion.
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[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
meganj924
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Post by meganj924 »

LOL I just have to say-- I love how we have a Jacob Black 3 thread! Hahahahaha! Most of the other characters are still on their first thread... actually I think all of them are. And Jacob's got three now!

He he he... us Jacob lovers are must be a bit more opinionated and talkative or something... :).

I'm betting we'll have 4-6 threads by the time Breaking Dawn comes out... lol :).

ROCK ON TEAM JACOB/JAKE LOVERS!
Last edited by meganj924 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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<center><img src="http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/smoshxox/blackpacl.jpg">
[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
meganj924
Fishing with Charlie
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:29 pm
Location: Stabbing Edward Cullen with a pencil while learning a little survival one-oh-one from Jake ;).

Post by meganj924 »

twilightsagaaddict wrote:
break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote:
break4jake wrote:
twilightsagaaddict wrote: ok i read that, and it actually made me like him more. and i will agree with you on one thing. if you read it and liked him less than you had before, i can only imagine that you went into it saying "this wont change my mind", because i always liked him (nothing like edward though) but i liked him even more after reading it. i love him, but i think he is immature. and you cant even compare him to mike newton. mike tried to go out with her time and time again, but he never tried to tear her from her true love and (pretty much) ruin her life.
he might seem immature, but he's 16 years old!!!!!! of course he's going to seem immature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he's in love and trying to save her life, and he's going about it anyway he can. he's making it up as he goes along.

ahhm. bout mike. he has no clue bout vampires and werewolves, so you don't know what he would do if he did know about that stuff. he might've tried to stop bella from changing into a vampire, who knows? also, he still wanted bella. in eclipse when edward's away hunting, he asks bella out.
yes i know he tried to ask her out. but he didnt go saying "if you dont ask me to kiss you, im going to risk my life". and what makes it worse is that jacob knew that he probably would barely even get a scratch on him.
because he knew bella wasn't in love with him and that she was give up her life to be a vampire. you have to think about it from jake's perspective.

his getting bella to kiss him made her realize she does love jake to, and wants to be with him and have a human life. but, she wants her vampire life with edward more. it wouldve just them more if she realized after she was turned that she loved jacob. she wouldn't have known if she had made the right choice, and by then it would've been too late. and jake had to try, he wouldn't know if he had done something would've changed anything.
but what right does he have to make her kiss her??? i mean im not saying that i dont want the kiss to have happened, because i think it was good that it did, because it showed her what she really wanted. but i dont believe that he was thinking of her when he made her kiss him. he was being selfish.
He didn't make her, persay. She asked. He didn't think she was being serious at first, remember? It says his "eyes widened in disbelief" or something like that. He certainly did suggest that it's what he wanted. And his "I'm going to go kill myself" argument sort of ensured she would ask him. But he didn't force her into anything. He didn't make him kiss her.
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<center><img src="http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/smoshxox/blackpacl.jpg">
[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
snarky
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
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Post by snarky »

twilightsagaaddict wrote:he was being selfish.
The point here is, everybody's selfish in their own way. Stone me if you like, but Edward's and Bella's selfishness way surpass Jacob's.

Their selfishness don't seem as obvious because the series is largely about them, so we tend to overlook it or explain it away as "Edward's just being protective of Bella" or "Bella needs to be with Edward forever". Doesn't make it right, though.
break4jake
Hanging Up on Jessica
Posts: 667
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 1:34 am
Location: daydreaming she was in la push or forks :)

Post by break4jake »

meganj924 wrote:LOL I just have to say-- I love how we have a Jacob Black 3 thread! Hahahahaha! Most of the other characters are still on their first thread... actually I think all of them are. And Jacob's got three now!

He he he... us Jacob lovers are must be a bit more opinionated and talkative or something... :).

I'm betting we'll have 4-6 threads by the time Breaking Dawn comes out... lol :).

ROCK ON TEAM JACOB/JAKE LOVERS!
haha. jake would be proud of us!!!! :)


we're sooooooooo jake-ish!!!!!!YAYAYAYAYAY!!!!!!!!!! :D
[img]http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll208/CamberXite/taylor_lautner-1.jpg[/img]
thanks to CamberXite for my awesome banner! and thanks to edward's vampheart to my adorable avatar!
*sings* Oh Jakey you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind hey Jakey! *clap clap* Hey Jakey!

OMHJ-oh my hot jacob :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW8-l944dw8 -watch my twilight-based song!
[img]http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3001/mybanner484e17775b014dx5.png[/img]
meganj924
Fishing with Charlie
Posts: 817
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:29 pm
Location: Stabbing Edward Cullen with a pencil while learning a little survival one-oh-one from Jake ;).

Post by meganj924 »

Break4Jake...

Heck yeah. Very Jake-ish people. We rock <3. Chyaaaaaaa!
Last edited by meganj924 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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<center><img src="http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/smoshxox/blackpacl.jpg">
[b]Team Jacob[/b]-- Because dogs are better than leeches. Because real men don't sparkle. Because Romeo is a pansy. Because Jake is HUMAN.
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