Latin Challenge

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LisaCullenAZ
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Post by LisaCullenAZ »

I had some really good points to make with the whole Edward courting Bella thing. But I just lost it all when I clicked "submit"... I am so annoyed! :x

And now I have to run. So I'll be back later to edit this. Sorry for the useless post. I just had to explain myself before disappearing!

Maybe chew on these for fun in the meantime:

Latine loqui coactus sum!

In medio stat virtus.

To NoWorries's furry friend: Latro! fremo!

And for no reason but to be silly:

Luke sum ipse patrem te. :lol:
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Apolla Savre
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Post by Apolla Savre »

Um, I realize that this is a Latin challenge but I am in need of some help and it deals with Latin so this is my first choice of where to go to!
Ok my quandary: I need to name a sword. At first I wanted to have it be "save us from evil" but now I'm not sure.
Sword's background: it's a katana and it's blue...um, it's used in a rebellion against (yeah yeah, I KNOW this is over used...) tyranny and oppression. So I need a name that fits that description.
If this is totally unacceptable because it's sort of off topic then you can just PM me with your thoughts and then I'll check back and delete this post so it doesn't clutter space.
Thanks!
~Apolla
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Pretty Words
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Post by Pretty Words »

...this makes me miss the summer...it's so hard to keep up with what's being said when I can't check this all the time like I did back before school started. *sigh* okay. let's see...

About the courtship thing? awwww!!! I'm not sure I ever thought of it exactly like that, but I like it. It's odd, I read and watch every interview with Stephenie Meyer that I possibly can, trying to gain as much knowlegde about the series as possible, yet I never put it all together quite the way some of you do! lol.


As for the dazzling, I know that I read on...some thread...back when Ec first came out (possibly ed-con?) that some people felt that Edward's ability to dazzle bella, only furthered the unequality in their relationship, but I think I'm more partial to several of the opinions on this thread. I mean, as several people pointed out: bella is fully aware of his ability to dazzle her. So, in Twilight, when Bella doesn't want to tell Edward something, she knows to avoid eye contact. But something that I appreciated in New Moon, was that Bella, through her suffering, seemed to gain a sort of independence towards Edward. In Twilight, it seemed like she could barely say no to him, but when he returns in New Moon, Bella holds her own pretty well, and she still manages to say no in Eclipse too. Like in the scene ILoveTwilight pointed out, in the meadow in Eclipse: Bella knows what she wants, and no amount of dazzling is going to convince her otherwise. I think Bella and Edward have reached a point in their relationship, where Edward isn't always going to get what he wants by simply breathing on her, or gazing at her. They talk things out, and reach a joint decision. I like that about their relationship. And after chapter 20 of Eclipse, I'm partial to the idea, that Bella is fully capable of "dazzling" Edward too.

As for the idea that Bella was meant to be immortal, I've wondered about that too. I think, for my own sanity, I just concluded that (in my head) Bella and Edward are soul mates. They were meant for each other. The minute that Edward became immortal, Bella was meant to be so too. Does that make sense? As I (think?) I mentioned in my last post, I'm all for the idea that they were meant to be together, despite the time difference. Bella was born to be different from everyone else, so that, as December said, she would be capable of returning Edward's love, undeterred by the fact that she is a human, and he is a vampire.

Jeez, lol, after reading everyone else's posts, I really feel like I oversimplify B/E's relationship...
"It's testing the strong ones
It's scarring the beautiful ones
It's holding your loved ones
one last time"
-"Testing The Strong Ones"
by Copeland

"My hands were gripping his arms, pulling myself tighter to him, my mouth glued to his and answering every unspoken question his asked."
-Eclipse

December
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Post by December »

Si quid est in me ingeni, iudices, quod sentio quam sit exiguum, aut si qua exercitatio dicendi, in qua me non infitior mediocriter esse versatum, aut si huiusce rei ratio aliqua ab optimarum artium studiis ac disciplina profecta, a qua ego nullum confiteor aetatis meae tempus abhorruisse, earum rerum omnium vel in primis hic A. Licinius fructum a me repetere prope suo iure debet.

O judges, if there is some talent in me, though I know how inadequate it may be, either in the practice of speaking (in which I do not deny I am modestly well-versed) or in some understanding of this matter, achieved through the study of -- and education in -- the best arts (which I by no means allow that my time of life shrinks from), certainly A Licinius should in the first place demand as by right the fruit of all these things from me.

There you go. A bit clunky for a translation which is also rather free in places, but I think it'll do.
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NoWorries
Teaching Eric Social Graces
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Post by NoWorries »

December -- I hadn't actually factored in all those courtship scenaria. Or, rather, I did but viewed them as being more passive than I suppose they really were. Good points!

I am . . . reading Ec again at the moment. All of it. First time (re-reading). Little scary.
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LisaCullenAZ
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Post by LisaCullenAZ »

I'm shocked nobody took a stab at my "Luke sum ipse patrem te" quote. It's famous. You all know this one...

Reading Eclipse again? Do it, NoWorries! Go for it. I liked it so much better the second time. Although, I'll admit, in some parts it's even more painful...

Like anytime in the first couple chapters or so when Edward is professing his undying love for Bella, and she says things to the effect of "And I will never have love for anyone but you"... and since you've read the ending before, you know what's coming! And your stomach just flips over! Ahhhh!

Okay. Not the "Mad at Bella" thread, I know. I'm good.

December wrote:
So, yes, I think it is courtship. An odd and reluctant courtship, but nevertheless a courtship.
In my original (and since lost) post about Edward courting Bella I was saying the same things...

He is reluctant because he feels selfish. He says he may as well go to hell "properly" if at all. And you know what I love? A conventional courtship usually begins with only an initial basic attraction. There is mild interest, and a desire to learn more about eachother. And as you court you may fall in love. But in Bedward's case, Edward has already been watching her, following her, studying her... and all while IGNORING HER. :lol: Most interestingly, he has already fallen in love with her! It's sort of backwards. But so much fun!

I'll tell you - the scenes in which I find Edward the most alluring is when he is actively pursuing Bella. And I love how perplexing it is to her! One of my all-time favorite scenes is in Twilight when Bella notices Edward missing from the Cullen table, thinks he is gone for the day, and then after Jessica spots him he beckons to Bella to join him with his and amused half-smile. Man, that is fun to read!
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December
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Post by December »

Ok Lisa, cute one...

Luke pater tuus sum ego
(If we're going to be sticklers for grammar....)

Luke, I am your father.



I've been rereading Eclipse too, and struck by all sorts of things. Like Bella's first reaction to being with Jake: that he makes her feel like a more carefree version of her self, "a little younger, a little less responsible. Someone who might do something really stupid for no good reason." Given where the story is going, that passage really grabbed my attention. Staying human with Jake would mean be able to remain young for many years to come. Not having to face up to decisions as grave as the one looming over her, decisions she is really too young to be making (certainly Edward thinks so). Not having to do something you could never do without good reason, something which only the very best, most absolutely unanswerable reasons could ever possibly justify. Outwardly Bella is still the insouciant teenager who thinks of her transformation as a promise extracted from Carlisle, a gift, an adventure, but at the back of her mind, the gravity of what she is undertaking has already begun to make itself felt.

And it's not just that Bella has serious choices to confront. Becoming a vampire means leaving the freedoms of her human childhood -- even a childhood as overshadowed as Bella's has been with responsibility for her parents, Victoria's death threats etc. -- behind forever. Paradoxically, it's the human teenagers, gradually growing old, who can be young. The ageless Cullens, frozen forever at 17 or 18, are the ones burdened with an eternity of unremitting responsibility. Being a vampire means struggling forever with the danger that you will lose control and kill someone. Or that you will slip up and give yourself away and have to kill them. "Part of being a Cullen means being meticulously responsible."

No wonder it is so easy for part of Bella to fall in love with Jake and the safe, manageable, natural human future he offers her....
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Pretty Words
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Post by Pretty Words »

December wrote:I've been rereading Eclipse too, and struck by all sorts of things. Like Bella's first reaction to being with Jake: that he makes her feel like a more carefree version of her self, "a little younger, a little less responsible. Someone who might do something really stupid for no good reason." Given where the story is going, that passage really grabbed my attention. Staying human with Jake would mean be able to remain young for many years to come. Not having to face up to decisions as grave as the one looming over her, decisions she is really too young to be making (certainly Edward thinks so). Not having to do something you could never do without good reason, something which only the very best, most absolutely unanswerable reasons could ever possibly justify. Outwardly Bella is still the insouciant teenager who thinks of her transformation as a promise extracted from Carlisle, a gift, an adventure, but at the back of her mind, the gravity of what she is undertaking has already begun to make itself felt.

And it's not just that Bella has serious choices to confront. Becoming a vampire means leaving the freedoms of her human childhood -- even a childhood as overshadowed as Bella's has been with responsibility for her parents, Victoria's death threats etc. -- behind forever. Paradoxically, it's the human teenagers, gradually growing old, who can be young. The ageless Cullens, frozen forever at 17 or 18, are the ones burdened with an eternity of unremitting responsibility. Being a vampire means struggling forever with the danger that you will lose control and kill someone. Or that you will slip up and give yourself away and have to kill them. "Part of being a Cullen means being meticulously responsible."

No wonder it is so easy for part of Bella to fall in love with Jake and the safe, manageable, natural human future he offers her....
Wow...you know, I never quite thought of it like that before...but that's a really great point...
"It's testing the strong ones
It's scarring the beautiful ones
It's holding your loved ones
one last time"
-"Testing The Strong Ones"
by Copeland

"My hands were gripping his arms, pulling myself tighter to him, my mouth glued to his and answering every unspoken question his asked."
-Eclipse

indi
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Post by indi »

December wrote:Si quid est in me ingeni, iudices, quod sentio quam sit exiguum, aut si qua exercitatio dicendi, in qua me non infitior mediocriter esse versatum, aut si huiusce rei ratio aliqua ab optimarum artium studiis ac disciplina profecta, a qua ego nullum confiteor aetatis meae tempus abhorruisse, earum rerum omnium vel in primis hic A. Licinius fructum a me repetere prope suo iure debet.

O judges, if there is some talent in me, though I know how inadequate it may be, either in the practice of speaking (in which I do not deny I am modestly well-versed) or in some understanding of this matter, achieved through the study of -- and education in -- the best arts (which I by no means allow that my time of life shrinks from), certainly A Licinius should in the first place demand as by right the fruit of all these things from me.

There you go. A bit clunky for a translation which is also rather free in places, but I think it'll do.
That's not bad! Not bad at all! The Exordium's the hardest part too...
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NoWorries
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Post by NoWorries »

December wrote:I've been rereading Eclipse too, and struck by all sorts of things. Like Bella's first reaction to being with Jake: that he makes her feel like a more carefree version of her self, "a little younger, a little less responsible. Someone who might do something really stupid for no good reason." Given where the story is going, that passage really grabbed my attention. Staying human with Jake would mean be able to remain young for many years to come. Not having to face up to decisions as grave as the one looming over her, decisions she is really too young to be making (certainly Edward thinks so). Not having to do something you could never do without good reason, something which only the very best, most absolutely unanswerable reasons could ever possibly justify. Outwardly Bella is still the insouciant teenager who thinks of her transformation as a promise extracted from Carlisle, a gift, an adventure, but at the back of her mind, the gravity of what she is undertaking has already begun to make itself felt.
What's that about brainshadowing? :lol:

That "less responsible" Bella quote hit me like so many tons of granite block when I re-read it. I mentioned after a first read of Ec that SM had such an opportunity to really capitalize on Ec as Bella's youthful rebellion, but I thought it fell short. Although I still think that (to an extent) it is so much more obvious with the second reading.

Bella's never really had an adolescence -- she's always been in an autority/parental role, to some extent, with both parents. She kept Renee on the straight and narrow, she takes care of Charlie: there's never been anything to rebel against, as she's spent her life to this point in the role of authority figure. And not to infer any Electra complex on her behalf, but Edward is the first person to whom she's had to answer. The first to step up and take responsibility for a large portion of her safety, survival and well-being.

Given ths situations confronting her, she 1) has to grow up, alot and quickly and 2) has to effectively choose between being an 18 year old and, as December pointed out, jump right into a life of even more responsibility than she's had taking care of her parents.

So, viewing Ec, as I muddle through once again, as Bella's one and only shot at adolescent drama makes it just the teensiest bit easier to swallow what is, at times, fairly deplorable behavior -- directed almost exclusively at the one who "matters most".
I survived The Great Dog Snog and all I got was this lousy sigline.
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