SM - It's Not Edward Bashing..."Ed-Con?" V.2

General discussion about the Twilight Series Universe.
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Sasha
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Post by Sasha »

Alcyone wrote:Giving options means giving her the application to Dartmouth (which he did). She decided she didn't want it, then it was her choice and Edward did what he could. He gave her an option. When he signed it for her, he took away her options and decided for her. That's not giving her an option.
This is exactly what I would have said. Thank you!

And yes, Edward means well. He doesn't have any malicious intents towards Bella. And yet does that *really* matter when the things he does *with good intentions* have such awful consequences?
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Post by StupidxLamb »

Sasha wrote:
Alcyone wrote:Giving options means giving her the application to Dartmouth (which he did). She decided she didn't want it, then it was her choice and Edward did what he could. He gave her an option. When he signed it for her, he took away her options and decided for her. That's not giving her an option.
This is exactly what I would have said. Thank you!

And yes, Edward means well. He doesn't have any malicious intents towards Bella. And yet does that *really* matter when the things he does *with good intentions* have such awful consequences?
To me, yes it does, when he doesn't realize it. I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. :lol: Everyone expects too much of Edward. We see his outwardly perfection and his way with words, etc, and we expect him to not be a stupid guy and make mistakes. I think that Edward feels guilty over everything he has put Bella through. He threatens her life every day, and he just wants to give her every option to be happy and thrive as he can. I don't really blame him, even if he does push the limits sometimes. When he pushes things too far, he never expects them to turn out that way. He's learning just like Bella.
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Sasha
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Post by Sasha »

StupidxLamb wrote:To me, yes it does, when he doesn't realize it. I think I've said this before, but I'll say it again. :lol: Everyone expects too much of Edward. We see his outwardly perfection and his way with words, etc, and we expect him to not be a stupid guy and make mistakes. I think that Edward feels guilty over everything he has put Bella through. He threatens her life every day, and he just wants to give her every option to be happy and thrive as he can. I don't really blame him, even if he does push the limits sometimes. When he pushes things too far, he never expects them to turn out that way. He's learning just like Bella.
That's one of my problems with Edward. He *should* be learning, but it doesn't seem like he's learned all that much at all. And when he *does* change, he takes change to the next level, which is not necessarily good... one extreme to another.

I know Edward makes mistakes. He is only "human". But my problem is that he makes the same mistakes over and over again. I don't hold Edward to a higher standard than I hold other characters. But I'm not going to hold him to a lower one, either, just because he is a vampire and not eating people.
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Post by llovetwilight »

Alcyone wrote:Giving options means giving her the application to Dartmouth (which he did). She decided she didn't want it, then it was her choice and Edward did what he could. He gave her an option. When he signed it for her, he took away her options and decided for her. That's not giving her an option.
He didn't really decide anything for her, though. There are deadlines to consider here. He kept her options open, if she decides to go to college.

Being accepted is not the same as actually attending.
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Post by amoredward »

Just one little comment:

Forgery is forgery. Signature or date, it's all illegal.

Continue!
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Post by llovetwilight »

sorry for the double post... I'll make use of it
Sasha wrote: And yes, Edward means well. He doesn't have any malicious intents towards Bella. And yet does that *really* matter when the things he does *with good intentions* have such awful consequences?
Perhaps you were speaking in more general terfor Bellams, but what exactly are the "awful consequences" for Bella here? She got in... if she is a vampire when breaking dawn comes along then this is all irrelevant as she won't be going anywhere... If she isn't a vampire, she will have the opportunity to get a Dartmouth education if SHE chooses to... that doesn't seem so bad does it?
Last edited by llovetwilight on Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by amoredward »

Sasha wrote:And yet does that *really* matter when the things he does *with good intentions* have such awful consequences?
Ilovetwilight wrote:Perhaps you were speaking in more general tems, but what exactly are the "awful consequences" here?
Oh, I was thinking of this time in New Moon when he had those great intentions and decided to leave Bella and let her have a "normal, human life." Is my memory failing me yet again? *sigh* I really need to do something about that...

And those awful consequences would be something like...the whole book of Eclipse, maybe? If he hadn't left, there would be no problem with Bella and Jake, and the whole mess that made.

And yes, the catalyst didn't exactly happen in Eclipse. It is more general than the exact moment Edward signed Bella's name on applications. But if he does that, it shows that he doesn't have a problem with doing things like forging signatures. So he could take that same principle, and magnify it to a worse situation. The pattern of behavior is definitely there.
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Post by Alcyone »

Dartmouth's date had passed by this time. Not only did he forge a signature, but bribed her way into a school that had closed dates to others.

And there's the fact that options doesn't include stealing her signature (as that's what forgery is) to get her into a school that ha dto be bought and to which she didn't wnat to go either. If he wanted options, why not try Washington State, Montana, some obscure college in Saskatchewan. That's giving her options not forcing her into one.
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Post by Sasha »

llovetwilight wrote: Perhaps you were speaking in more general tems, but what exactly are the "awful consequences" here? She got in... if she is a vampire when breaking dawn comes along then this is all irrelevant as she won't be going anywhere... If she isn't a vampire, she will have the opportunity to get a Dartmouth education if SHE chooses to... that doesn't seem so bad does it?
General terms. But, in this case, one consequence could be that because Bella was accepted, some person who studied very hard to get in did *not*. That may not be something that affects Bella, but it is an awful thing for that person.
A possible awful outcome: Bella could have been more like me and dumped his meddling behind.

amoredward: all forgery is illegal. But some is, IMO, more morally reprehensible than other. Forging a birth certificate so you don't get discovered for being immortal is not the same in my book as forging an application.
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Post by amoredward »

Sasha wrote:amoredward: all forgery is illegal. But some is, IMO, more morally reprehensible than other. Forging a birth certificate so you don't get discovered for being immortal is not the same in my book as forging an application.
Yes, I can see what you mean. I guess I automatically group all forgery together in one little boat in my mind. I can understand your point, though. :wink:
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