Eclipse was okay...

General discussion about the Twilight Series Universe.
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firefly
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Post by firefly »

ECABS wrote:I swear I wanted to love this book...:(
I think this is a really easy book to like (and, for me, the easiest of the three to read), but it doesn't hit hard enough to love it, I don't think, not for me, anyway.

Except for Jacob, that is. Edward still registers as pretty "meh" on the scale, overall, going from control freak to utter... uh, well, I don't have a word for it.

Not entirely sure what was up with Bella -- there seemed to be quite a shift in tone, without any explanation for it. (I wonder if that's being allowed more leeway from SM's editors.)

Jacob is a GIANT TORTURED PUPPY. Dude, what's not to love? :D

I haven't read any (okay, maybe one or two) fanfics, so that's not what's bothering me or where my perspective is coming from.
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Post by Klutzy_albino »

I certainly didn't hate Eclipse....there were just parts that....are still a little muddled in my head, I am actually biding my time until I pick it up and re read it with a little more scrutiny. The more I think about it, the more it draws me in....it was mainly the two things i pointed out earlier, that confounded me. Not to mention the cursed golden aura. Once my mind accepts that Eclipse is really out, I think the grander points of the book will overpower everything else.
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ECABS
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Post by ECABS »

firefly wrote:
ECABS wrote:I swear I wanted to love this book...:(
I think this is a really easy book to like (and, for me, the easiest of the three to read), but it doesn't hit hard enough to love it, I don't think, not for me, anyway.

Except for Jacob, that is. Edward still registers as pretty "meh" on the scale, overall, going from control freak to utter... uh, well, I don't have a word for it.

Not entirely sure what was up with Bella -- there seemed to be quite a shift in tone, without any explanation for it. (I wonder if that's being allowed more leeway from SM's editors.)

Jacob is a GIANT TORTURED PUPPY. Dude, what's not to love? :D

I haven't read any (okay, maybe one or two) fanfics, so that's not what's bothering me or where my perspective is coming from.
Yep...every single point you made I 100% agree with...It's a good summation of the problems I had...especially the tone shift for Bella...

I think the fanfictions ruined it for me becuase parts of the book reminded me of fanfictions I've read...and this is not an insult to any fanfiction writer, but Eclipse should NOT remind me of fanfiction...but that is a tall order...considering that there's a gazillion fanfiction stories out there and some of them have to ring true to Eclipse...there's no way to avoid that...and what exasperated that problem was the fact that I was reading Eclipse like I read fanfiction...on my laptop! UGH! *headdesk* !!!

Oh...another issue that I forgot to mention earlier...

Rosalie's talk! Umm...it ended with Rosalie basically saying that she would hate Bella if Bella chose to become one of them...did that seem wrong to any of you? I mean it was a really heartfelt conversatin and then it ends the way it does...??

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Post by pommekitty »

Well, I do think there's a difference between 'hate' and 'disappointed by some things'.

We're all talking about specific things here, specific things which bothered some of us. But that doesn't mean we didn't find anything to like in Eclipse. I've often noticed that we always tend to write about things we didn't like about a book rather than the things we liked.

I, for one, loved the writing, Charlie, the betting at school over which would win of Edward or Jacob, and so many other little things and details.

So I don't feel justified in posting in the 'Hate' thread. It's possible to dislike certain aspects of a book while enjoying others. So I think the 'Okay' thread should be perfect for this shouldn't it? Middle ground.

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Post by ForeignBelle »

Monsoon, I complately get your point! It seemed a bit like a filler...and I did like it. It's just...*sigh* I don't know it's kind of hard to put into words. Jacob seemed so OOC to me I mean where did the guy that made Bella laugh and helped her it seemed to me that that Jacob kind of disappeared. I remeber Stephenie saying that (some if I mess up the quote) "It'll will be hard to hate Jacob after Eclipse." I, to be honest, didn't find it incredibly hard at all and I love Jacob. I mean here Bella is torn between two things she cherishs and Jacob has the nerve to actually force her to kiss him then, practically says he'll just let himself get hurt (or killed) unless she kisses him! He knew how much that would hurt her but, he did it anyway

It's my opinion but, did anyone else feel that Edward took a bit of a back seat in this? Not that he was forgotten or anything but, like his role in the novel faded a bit? It's really hard for me to say...I hope someone gets what I mean though. And who else got angry with Edward? I never believed that Edward could be that kind of "*shrug*Okay, whatever" kind of guy but, that's exactly what he became for most of the novel. I'm pretty sure you know what I mean. I don't even know. It's like he's losing himself as the novel goes on and becoming less...Edward-like. I don't know if the reason he didn't even get even a tad bit mad was because he was extremely caught up in hoping that Bella would be happy.

And Bella...Bella, at least to me, stayed mostly the same. Except she seemed childish and a bit unable to at the very least stand up for herself. And did anyone feel a bit taken aback by Bella sudden sexual drive (wow I have never used that term ever in my life until now lol) I mean, like Monsoon said, it was there in Twilight a bit but, it came back without a warning and full blown. To be honest it didn't bother me that much because mostly I was too caught up in Jacob and Edward's major character changes.

I'm going to quit my ranting now but, before anyone jumps on my back I have to say I didn't like Eclipse ALOT but, just not as much as Twilight and New Moon.
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Post by twilightlove »

NoWorries wrote:Ok, so I'm a spoilerfiend -- my book comes tomorrow.

But I'm just sticking a toe into this thread, because after reading all the many things that have been posted -- including in all the various "pro" threads -- I am very honestly DREADING reading this book. Right now I can say I'll read it because I feel like I have to, but the comments I've seen make me think that there have been such absurd character shifts as to entirely negate the reasons behind my Twilight-lust. I was in it for the amazing characters, all this time. And I will be extraordinarily peeved if, after all this, I don't think I can trust the storyteller or the characters.

To a reasonable extent, I felt like there was the teensiest shift in character tone in NM -- not in actions: they NEVER did anything I wouldn't expect of them, but in the manner in which their stories were relayed by Bella. I'm fearful that Eclipse is going to be more of the same, to the n'th.

I have every plan to be objective (I promise I still can be, really) but I'm also willing to be totally honest about it, too. If it's BS, I'm calling it.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

I read spoilers too my book also comes tomorrow=] & I agree so much with you. When I read all the posts on how Bellas character changed into this typical teenage girl andall these ajor character shifts from important people it makes me very nervous.
From what everyone (not just in here) has been posting it seems like Stephenie has taken a drastic turn with Eclipse and possibly not for the better.
But it's not going to stop me from reading obvously and maybe once I read it and see where and why each individual character acts the way they do i'll have a better opinion.

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Post by Hellish Red Devil »

I'm a little surprised at how many people view Edward as "weak" for not lashing out at Bella after she kissed Jacob. Bella is Edward's reason for existing. He cares more about her than he does himself--so no matter how envious he may feel, no way will he take it out on Bella, especially not when she's already torturing herself.

And Edward was jealous--he said as much to Jacob in the tent. That entire conversation that Bella thought she was half-dreaming was very revelatory. Edward struggles with jealousy and anger and sadness and fear just as much as Jake does, perhaps even more so, the way his vampire mind functions--but in the end, what will make him happiest is Bella's happiness. He cannot bear to see Bella unhappy; therefore, he won't contribute to it the way Jake does--Jake has no qualms using jealousy as a weapon if it will help his case. Edward does.

Regarding the marriage issue, I think Bella explained herself pretty clearly: she is eighteen years old, fresh out of high school. I think that says it all, really. No matter how she and Edward feel about one another, her parents and society at large would frown heavily at this behavior. It's "irresponsible." And if Bella is anything, she is responsible. To her, marriage and love are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps I can understand this concept better than most because my own mother was married at eighteen, and though she and my father are past their fiftieth anniversary at this point, she is adamant that I not marry as young as she did--because that's not what "smart" people do. "Smart" people get educations, "smart" people carve their own way and don't rely on a man to make it for them. That's the mentality many are raised with, including Bella.

Edit: Not everyone will like Eclipse, and that's totally your prerogative; I just wanted to put out my own thoughts on some of the issues raised here.
Last edited by Hellish Red Devil on Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:53 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Post by Klutzy_albino »

It's not a turn for the worst, don't let these thoughts detour you at all!!! The book just has a lot of new information to absorb. I know that I am still trying to stop my head from spinning. Eclipse it 100%worth reading. Read it!!!
''The lofty bookshelves sag under thousands of sleeping souls. Silent, hopful; everytime I open a book a soul is awakened."
-Xi Chuan "Books:Newgeneration"-

My fanfic
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Post by pommekitty »

I'm a little surprised at how many people view Edward as "weak" for not lashing out at Bella after she kissed Jacob. Bella is Edward's reason for existing. He cares more about her than he does himself--so no matter how envious he may feel, no way will he take it out on Bella, especially not when she's already torturing herself.
I agree. Actually Edward was the best thing about Eclipse for me. I really liked the way it was made clear he was paying for his decision to leave in New Moon and that he was aware of it. I think that's an important thing to keep in mind when one's tempted to see him as weak. For me, he was actually the strongest character in the book. His whole world was just on the point of crumbling down and it's heartbreaking to think about all the things he strove to hide from Bella: his suffering, his jealousy, his desperation, his fear, his hopes. As mentioned in a post above, he was really right with the tree/forest thing. A love like his is so beautiful and awe-inspiring.

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Post by firefly »

ECABS wrote:Yep...every single point you made I 100% agree with...It's a good summation of the problems I had...especially the tone shift for Bella...
It was a very "talky" book, I found, whereas in Twilight and NM, I thought we were more in Bella's head, with her thoughts and observations, more than listening to other people talk. That's not necessarily a good or bad thing, IMO, but it was different.
I think the fanfictions ruined it for me becuase parts of the book reminded me of fanfictions I've read...and this is not an insult to any fanfiction writer, but Eclipse should NOT remind me of fanfiction...but that is a tall order...considering that there's a gazillion fanfiction stories out there and some of them have to ring true to Eclipse...there's no way to avoid that...and what exasperated that problem was the fact that I was reading Eclipse like I read fanfiction...on my laptop! UGH! *headdesk* !!!
I wonder if that has something to do with the predictability? That Victoria was behind it all, that the weres and vamps would team up... that there'd be a happy ending... The biggest surprise, for me, was that there weren't really any surprises. But possibly, I've been irrevocably corrupted by Whedon and am continually expecting something unexpected to rip out my guts... and when it doesn't happen, I'm disappointed? Not that a happy story can't also be a good one, but I was expecting more emotional depth/resonance.
Oh...another issue that I forgot to mention earlier...

Rosalie's talk! Umm...it ended with Rosalie basically saying that she would hate Bella if Bella chose to become one of them...did that seem wrong to any of you? I mean it was a really heartfelt conversatin and then it ends the way it does...??
It didn't seem wrong to me that Rosalie would hate Bella, for whatever reason, but it did feel a little bit like that story line was cut short because it wasn't mentioned again (that I can recall) throughout the rest of the book. I wonder if it'll get picked up again in BD. Those are the kinds of consequences or undertones I like, so that's my bias showing.
Hellish Red Devil wrote:Jake has no qualms using jealousy as a weapon if it will help his case.
Which, sigh, only makes me like Jacob more. :D

I don't think Edward is "weak" for not getting mad. I think it's more of the "perfect boyfriend" syndrome that's been plaguing him... He's selfless to the point of annoyance/incredibility. Unless one finds that sort of thing endearing, of course.

The part where I liked Edward best was when he bought a motorcycle -- because it was a misstep on his part and showed rather than told of his insecurities and his "imperfection".

Re marriage -- for me, after being told over and over again that Bella was so unique and had a different reason than most for not wanting to get married, I was somewhat surprised that her reasoning for it was so... universal. It also seemed like those were the theories that were shut down in one of the many marriage threads from earlier, so, I suppose I was expecting something a little more left of centre with her logic, and instead it was pretty straightforward teenager issues. Which is fine, IMO. The issue there - and with the vampire wars* - is mostly outside of the book, for me, with the extras and fandom, I guess; *was the whole bit about "who wants to be king of the cows" a red herring, then?
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