If you were Bella's friend

General discussion about the Twilight Series Universe.
Octoberfalls
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Post by Octoberfalls » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:49 pm

Ok I am thinking back to when I was in high school, this is totally going to date me though (I graduated in 1995)...lol! But I remember having my first boyfriend and falling in love for the first time and I remember all my friends having their first loves too in high school. I think we all kind of "drop" our friends. I know I did and my friends did it too, but even after people broke up or whatever, we all went back to the way it was, like the time between us was never lost.

I remember how devistated I was when my first love & I broke up, it was heart wrenching, but my friends were there for me and tried to help me through it. Sometimes, we need to work through it on our own, and it Bella definately is that type of person. I think that because it was still such a short amount of time that she was friends w/ everyone that their friendshops had'nt built up to that point where they felt that they could be that kind of friend to her. I also think that she didn't allow them to be that type of friend. But again, do you blame her, think about it, if it were you, you just changed schools in your junior year and you were kind of a loner to begin w/ and being 17 you probably don't trust people as easily in a new place. So she was friends w/ them but maybe not to the point where either of them felt they could help her out enough or she felt that she could trust them with this situatiom (not the vampire thing, but the fact that she had just lost her first love).

But obviously, she felt something there with Jacob to where he brought her back to herself and it seemed like there was some type of resentment between her & her "other" friends (Jessica, Angela, Mike). They all seemed to try a bit but something was missing. I think it had to do w/ the amout of time they had been friends.

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Crusader For Literature
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Post by Crusader For Literature » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:04 pm

SPARKLES wrote:
Crusader For Literature wrote:
ibelievealice wrote:
Crusader For Literature wrote: What I mean is that the circumstances could be exactly the same, but if Ms. Meyer told us Jessica was selfless and Bella shallow, with no change to either character's circumstance most people who defend Bella as a person with mostly admirable qualities despite a difficult life would instead sympathize with Jessica and her plights.

In other words, Ms. Meyer is telling you who's good and who's bad in such a way that most people don't try to form opinions on the subject on their own.
Really? I don't think it's just SM who does that. Every writer for ever there was does that. It has to do with developing a character. If the author doesn't explain to us what the characters are like, then how are we to know? Do you think we should love Victoria too? Should SM describe her with a little less of a formed opinion so we can draw our own?
I mean no offense, but this IS a story, if the author doesn't describe her characters so we know who is the vilian, the heroin, the loyal subjects, and the not so loyal subjects then how do you think we will know? You can't really write a story line where all the characters feeling, actions, and expressions are left out for us to make our own opinions of them, can you?
I think you don't really understand literature. Yes, Ms. Meyer I believe should describe Victoria with a little less of a bullhorn shouting 'look here, she's evil' and instead show us what evil and good she does and let us interpret it. The point of literature is to engage the reader's mind, give him or her complex characters to asses and let them decide who they like and why. No good author just about flat-out tells the audience whom to cheer for because everything that character does is good. And oh my, says the author, it's a bad person, because I TELL you she's bad.

No. A good author will let the characters run the show how they want to and not step in to say 'Character X is the heroine with a tragic past who is awesome and kind anyway wow, and character Y is the nasty villain who hates her for no reason except evillness'. A good author will chronicle objectively and let the reader work it out on his/her own. That's literature. Not bein told whom to cheer for and then following in the cheer for four books. Uh-uh.
But the point is we are getting Bella's view. She doesnt discuss character's good/evil in detail because the book is from a particular character's point of view. We see what Bella sees. We perceive what Bella perceives. It's from her POV. So to expect SM to chronicle each character, in this case, wouldnt make sense. You're right, we dont necessarily get an objective look at, say, Victoria, because we're getting it from a character's point of view. That doesnt make SM a bad author, it's just her style of writing. It may be different than your style. Neither is wrong, just different. You are strictly looking at how you would write it, or how you think it should be written. And people not seeing things your way doesnt make them ignorant to literature.
I was trying to make a point about ignorance to literature (or lack thereof) of those who don't see things my way; just those who are averse to seeing books in ways other than the author's blatantly obvious intention, if the actual books support it.

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Post by diamond encrusted » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:01 pm

I definately agree. To be honest, I don't even think of them as Bella's friends. To me, it was as if they only "befriended" her because she was the new and "popular" person. She was the talk of the town. Then, when she was hanging out with the Cullens and the Hales, I suppose they got jealous, especially Lauren and Jessica, seeing as Edward is gorgeous and they couldn't have him. The Cullens and the Hales are extremely good looking, rich and mysterious. They kept to themselves but Bella was able to be apart of them. I think that they were jealous of her so they gave her the silent treatment/cold shoulder. Its the attitude of "Aww, poor Bella, her popular friends ditched her so now she has to hang out with US!!" kind of thing.
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I agree

Post by twilighter1234 » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:27 pm

I definately agree 100%. If I were Bella's friend watching from the outside, I think I would have been more supportive. Forgive and forget!
Now I'm going to go watch the Twilight trailer... again...

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Post by SPARKLES » Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:08 pm

Crusader for Literature wrote
I was trying to make a point about ignorance to literature (or lack thereof) of those who don't see things my way; just those who are averse to seeing books in ways other than the author's blatantly obvious intention, if the actual books support it.
Yes, I believe I know what you mean. However, if we go off of more than the information the author gives us, then we are simply either making things up about the characters or trying to turn them into whatever we want them to be. I can't think anything of Jessica other than what Bella thinks of Jessica. That's all that's provided for me. What I am saying is, it doesnt make me ignorant because I can't see more than what the author is giving me, especially in a book like this where it's from the perspective of one character. All the rest would be speculation.
I think I know what you mean about it being the author's job to provide all the info about a character so that we can be our own judge of each character. Certainly Bella can't provide me with everything there is to know about Jessica, or Victoria etc. That's how SM writes it. That's done on purpose.

I do get your point, at least I am trying to see your point of view, I am just not sure it's valid with this style of writing.
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Post by ~waiting4mylovestory~ » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:06 am

I don't think that they just abandoned her. I mean there's a part in New Moon where Bella or it might have been her father who said that her friend's tried to help her, they called her and stuff but after awhile when she didn't get any better they stopped.

I've thought a lot about this problem, it was one of the biggest problems I had with the book altogether. The problem is that friendship is so important to any high schooler, but through my experience in high school I've learned that friendship is a two way street. Bella burnt her own bridges long before Edward left. From her perspective it doesn't sound like she spent a lot of time with them during the summer before her senior year, basically she isolated herself from them.

But I agree they should have tried to help and it sounds like they did, but after awhile people just get sick of her hearing the same sob, oh-my-poor-heart-just-got-broken-story. Bella didn't want to heal or move on she just wanted to mope and her friends got sick of it. I would have tried to have been supportive but at some point I think I would have sat her down and smacked her across the face and told her "he isn't coming back so let's move on." It may sound harsh but after awhile that's what I felt she needed, was just someone to tell her it's ok to move on with your life.

I'll just say this, to the outside world Edward didn't abandon her, his family moved. To her friends the choice wasn't Edward's to make it was Carlisle's. They can't see what we as readers see.
I agree--along with several other people in this thread...even though it may sound harsh, I have a temper, so I would be trying to slap her and say that. But considering that I am a Angela alot more than a Jessica or Lauren, I would welcome her back with open arms, and tell her she can talk to me about it, etc.

But I think your reaction when she came back does depend on wether your a Lauren/Jessica or a Angela...because they kind of have a different view of wat actually happened. If your a Lauren/Jessica, you'd probably get the impression that she got accepted by the rich, mysterious, beautiful Cullens/Hales and then got rejected by them as they moved away. So now she wants to be popular or something and hangs out with you; making it seem like your the rejection pile. If your a Lauren/Jessica thats probably how it would look like, and it would hurt your ego, pride, etc.

If your Angela, you might have a part of that view, but you would percieve, perhaps, that they were in love and shes hurt, and though you tried, theirs nothing you can do about it; but shes welcome back whenever she comes back.

That's kind of how i saw that as well...wow. that was long post :P
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Post by Ostentatious6277 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:14 am

They shouldn'tve abandoned her, but look at it from her friends' prespective. She was just doing nothing that whole time over a boy. They probably thought she was a little pathetic. The ones like Jessica probably thought it'd be bad for their popular image.
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Post by Firewind » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:08 am

Honestly I think Bella deserved what she got (but I'm not a Bella fan, so...)

I don't care if you're heartbroken over a boy, you don't completely ignore your friends. And despite Jessica's pettiness, all she's EVER done to Bella is be nice to her. She talked to her on the first day of school. Bella could show a little more respect to her friends, especially the good ones like Angela.

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Post by ibelievealice » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:54 am

SPARKLES wrote:Crusader for Literature wrote
I was trying to make a point about ignorance to literature (or lack thereof) of those who don't see things my way; just those who are averse to seeing books in ways other than the author's blatantly obvious intention, if the actual books support it.
Yes, I believe I know what you mean. However, if we go off of more than the information the author gives us, then we are simply either making things up about the characters or trying to turn them into whatever we want them to be. I can't think anything of Jessica other than what Bella thinks of Jessica. That's all that's provided for me. What I am saying is, it doesnt make me ignorant because I can't see more than what the author is giving me, especially in a book like this where it's from the perspective of one character. All the rest would be speculation.
I think I know what you mean about it being the author's job to provide all the info about a character so that we can be our own judge of each character. Certainly Bella can't provide me with everything there is to know about Jessica, or Victoria etc. That's how SM writes it. That's done on purpose.

I do get your point, at least I am trying to see your point of view, I am just not sure it's valid with this style of writing.

Crusader, I'm going to try NOT to take offense to your comment about me not knowing much about literature. For you to make such a general comment about me, not knowing my background, sends me a strong message about your education.
But moving on..
Sparkles, that is very well put.
It is from Bella's POV, we are shown things through her eyes. But I am not cattle, I am not hord around without use of my own brain. If I think Jessica is not such a bad character and can relate to her on some level then I will think that, and at the same time if I don't like the way she behaves, then thats my opinion as well. If SM wrote that since Bella jump off that cliff I should too, do you think I would? NO, I am able to think and have my own opinions as well. Just because Bella feels a certain way about other characters doesn't mean I will follow. Readers are free to form their own opinions of all the characters, as you can see in this forum. There are many who like things others don't. So Crusader, SM can write any style she wants, she makes the big bucks, and people must love it or we wouldn't be here, you don't have to agree or like it, but it is still Literature.
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Post by vampiregirlsince1918 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:07 pm

If I were Bella's friend I'd definatly forgive her cause I would have known that she was heart broken that Edward had left. Its not like it wasnt easy to see (even from their viewpoint).I'd be happy that she was finally feeling better. :)
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