If you were Bella's friend

General discussion about the Twilight Series Universe.
greeneggs
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Post by greeneggs »

She doesn't seem like the kind of person I'd be interested in...

As long as she kept out of my way I'd leave her alone, too.

ibelievealice
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Post by ibelievealice »

You guys have to remember a few things about Bella...
She was taken from her father when she was little and then had to pretty much raise her flighty mother. She had to act like the responsible one most of the time, pay the bills, cook the dinners, reel her mom in when she got carried away. She had to grow up much faster than normal. She didn't have much of a childhood at all. She didn't have much time to play with her school mates, or hang out with her peers. Then she does something I feel is very unselfish, she tells her mom to go and have fun with her new husband, and moves states away to live with her father. In a place she hates, with a person she barely knows. All because she knows she is holding her mom back (remember it said she moved because she could tell her mom wanted to travel with her man, but stayed back only because of Bella). Bella is not selfish, or hearless, or unfriendly, she has never even had a boyfriend. She isn't good at making friends, she doens't like too much attention, and she has had a difficult childhood. So, she starts a new school everyone is interested in her because they want to see who the Police Chief's daughter is and the daughter of the crazy lady who left her husband with their baby because she hated Forks. She is thrown into another situation where she has to make the best of things, Bella is a survivor. That has become her normal instinct. What Bella really needs is a good friend. Someone to show her what having a friend is really all about. It takes a bigger person to step forward and do what is right.
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Crusader For Literature
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Post by Crusader For Literature »

ibelievealice wrote:You guys have to remember a few things about Bella...
She was taken from her father when she was little and then had to pretty much raise her flighty mother. She had to act like the responsible one most of the time, pay the bills, cook the dinners, reel her mom in when she got carried away. She had to grow up much faster than normal. She didn't have much of a childhood at all. She didn't have much time to play with her school mates, or hang out with her peers. Then she does something I feel is very unselfish, she tells her mom to go and have fun with her new husband, and moves states away to live with her father. In a place she hates, with a person she barely knows. All because she knows she is holding her mom back (remember it said she moved because she could tell her mom wanted to travel with her man, but stayed back only because of Bella). Bella is not selfish, or hearless, or unfriendly, she has never even had a boyfriend. She isn't good at making friends, she doens't like too much attention, and she has had a difficult childhood. So, she starts a new school everyone is interested in her because they want to see who the Police Chief's daughter is and the daughter of the crazy lady who left her husband with their baby because she hated Forks. She is thrown into another situation where she has to make the best of things, Bella is a survivor. That has become her normal instinct. What Bella really needs is a good friend. Someone to show her what having a friend is really all about. It takes a bigger person to step forward and do what is right.
But if Stephenie Meyer instead just about flat out told her audience (as she tends to do) that Jessica was the selfless heroine and Bella was a weird, shy girl with an odd thing for that intriguing handsome Edward dude who scorned friendly people and happened to have a constant whiny internal monologue, you'd just go and condemn Bella.

ibelievealice
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Post by ibelievealice »

Crusader For Literature wrote: But if Stephenie Meyer instead just about flat out told her audience (as she tends to do) that Jessica was the selfless heroine and Bella was a weird, shy girl with an odd thing for that intriguing handsome Edward dude who scorned friendly people and happened to have a constant whiny internal monologue, you'd just go and condemn Bella.
But that's the point isn't it? Jessica isn't the selfless heroine. There usually is only one heroine in a story, this story just happens to be Bella's turn. This isn't the story of Jessica and Edward or Jessica and anybody, she is the friend who unfortunatly isn't too good at it.
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Crusader For Literature
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Post by Crusader For Literature »

ibelievealice wrote:
Crusader For Literature wrote: But if Stephenie Meyer instead just about flat out told her audience (as she tends to do) that Jessica was the selfless heroine and Bella was a weird, shy girl with an odd thing for that intriguing handsome Edward dude who scorned friendly people and happened to have a constant whiny internal monologue, you'd just go and condemn Bella.
But that's the point isn't it? Jessica isn't the selfless heroine. There usually is only one heroine in a story, this story just happens to be Bella's turn. This isn't the story of Jessica and Edward or Jessica and anybody, she is the friend who unfortunatly isn't too good at it.
What I mean is that the circumstances could be exactly the same, but if Ms. Meyer told us Jessica was selfless and Bella shallow, with no change to either character's circumstance most people who defend Bella as a person with mostly admirable qualities despite a difficult life would instead sympathize with Jessica and her plights.

In other words, Ms. Meyer is telling you who's good and who's bad in such a way that most people don't try to form opinions on the subject on their own.

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Post by katylynnlee »

Personally, if my friend came to school like that, I would be really worried. I'm sure maybe some of her friends were, but they should have went up to her and asked her if she was okay or took her aside and told her they were there for her.
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SPARKLES
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Post by SPARKLES »

katylynnlee wrote:Personally, if my friend came to school like that, I would be really worried. I'm sure maybe some of her friends were, but they should have went up to her and asked her if she was okay or took her aside and told her they were there for her.
I think most people would, for a while anyway. It seems the people in Forks dont really know how to be a friend or what friendship is. Bella included. But to be fair, in NM Charlie told Alice that Bella's friends would call and she didnt ever call them back so they quit calling. After a while I think most people would quit calling and putting forth the effort, if the other person was giving nothing in return. You might still feel bad for them and want the best for them but at some point, if there's nothing you can do for them and they dont seem to want your help, you would give up.
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ibelievealice
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Post by ibelievealice »

Crusader For Literature wrote: What I mean is that the circumstances could be exactly the same, but if Ms. Meyer told us Jessica was selfless and Bella shallow, with no change to either character's circumstance most people who defend Bella as a person with mostly admirable qualities despite a difficult life would instead sympathize with Jessica and her plights.

In other words, Ms. Meyer is telling you who's good and who's bad in such a way that most people don't try to form opinions on the subject on their own.
Really? I don't think it's just SM who does that. Every writer for ever there was does that. It has to do with developing a character. If the author doesn't explain to us what the characters are like, then how are we to know? Do you think we should love Victoria too? Should SM describe her with a little less of a formed opinion so we can draw our own?
I mean no offense, but this IS a story, if the author doesn't describe her characters so we know who is the vilian, the heroin, the loyal subjects, and the not so loyal subjects then how do you think we will know? You can't really write a story line where all the characters feeling, actions, and expressions are left out for us to make our own opinions of them, can you?
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Crusader For Literature
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Post by Crusader For Literature »

ibelievealice wrote:
Crusader For Literature wrote: What I mean is that the circumstances could be exactly the same, but if Ms. Meyer told us Jessica was selfless and Bella shallow, with no change to either character's circumstance most people who defend Bella as a person with mostly admirable qualities despite a difficult life would instead sympathize with Jessica and her plights.

In other words, Ms. Meyer is telling you who's good and who's bad in such a way that most people don't try to form opinions on the subject on their own.
Really? I don't think it's just SM who does that. Every writer for ever there was does that. It has to do with developing a character. If the author doesn't explain to us what the characters are like, then how are we to know? Do you think we should love Victoria too? Should SM describe her with a little less of a formed opinion so we can draw our own?
I mean no offense, but this IS a story, if the author doesn't describe her characters so we know who is the vilian, the heroin, the loyal subjects, and the not so loyal subjects then how do you think we will know? You can't really write a story line where all the characters feeling, actions, and expressions are left out for us to make our own opinions of them, can you?
I think you don't really understand literature. Yes, Ms. Meyer I believe should describe Victoria with a little less of a bullhorn shouting 'look here, she's evil' and instead show us what evil and good she does and let us interpret it. The point of literature is to engage the reader's mind, give him or her complex characters to asses and let them decide who they like and why. No good author just about flat-out tells the audience whom to cheer for because everything that character does is good. And oh my, says the author, it's a bad person, because I TELL you she's bad.

No. A good author will let the characters run the show how they want to and not step in to say 'Character X is the heroine with a tragic past who is awesome and kind anyway wow, and character Y is the nasty villain who hates her for no reason except evillness'. A good author will chronicle objectively and let the reader work it out on his/her own. That's literature. Not bein told whom to cheer for and then following in the cheer for four books. Uh-uh.

SPARKLES
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Post by SPARKLES »

Crusader For Literature wrote:
ibelievealice wrote:
Crusader For Literature wrote: What I mean is that the circumstances could be exactly the same, but if Ms. Meyer told us Jessica was selfless and Bella shallow, with no change to either character's circumstance most people who defend Bella as a person with mostly admirable qualities despite a difficult life would instead sympathize with Jessica and her plights.

In other words, Ms. Meyer is telling you who's good and who's bad in such a way that most people don't try to form opinions on the subject on their own.
Really? I don't think it's just SM who does that. Every writer for ever there was does that. It has to do with developing a character. If the author doesn't explain to us what the characters are like, then how are we to know? Do you think we should love Victoria too? Should SM describe her with a little less of a formed opinion so we can draw our own?
I mean no offense, but this IS a story, if the author doesn't describe her characters so we know who is the vilian, the heroin, the loyal subjects, and the not so loyal subjects then how do you think we will know? You can't really write a story line where all the characters feeling, actions, and expressions are left out for us to make our own opinions of them, can you?
I think you don't really understand literature. Yes, Ms. Meyer I believe should describe Victoria with a little less of a bullhorn shouting 'look here, she's evil' and instead show us what evil and good she does and let us interpret it. The point of literature is to engage the reader's mind, give him or her complex characters to asses and let them decide who they like and why. No good author just about flat-out tells the audience whom to cheer for because everything that character does is good. And oh my, says the author, it's a bad person, because I TELL you she's bad.

No. A good author will let the characters run the show how they want to and not step in to say 'Character X is the heroine with a tragic past who is awesome and kind anyway wow, and character Y is the nasty villain who hates her for no reason except evillness'. A good author will chronicle objectively and let the reader work it out on his/her own. That's literature. Not bein told whom to cheer for and then following in the cheer for four books. Uh-uh.
But the point is we are getting Bella's view. She doesnt discuss character's good/evil in detail because the book is from a particular character's point of view. We see what Bella sees. We perceive what Bella perceives. It's from her POV. So to expect SM to chronicle each character, in this case, wouldnt make sense. You're right, we dont necessarily get an objective look at, say, Victoria, because we're getting it from a character's point of view. That doesnt make SM a bad author, it's just her style of writing. It may be different than your style. Neither is wrong, just different. You are strictly looking at how you would write it, or how you think it should be written. And people not seeing things your way doesnt make them ignorant to literature.
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