Imprinting....As good as human love?

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Post by SparklingDiamond » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:59 pm

Leah Wrote:
But I think that's exactly the point. The imprintee dosen't choose to spend time with the imprinter - he has to, because somehow nature already made the choice for him.
I see what you're saying, but what is a choice really? We choose to spend time with people because we are compelled by something about the other person. The same way that the werewolves are compelled to spend time with their imprintee. Chemistry.

Ouisa/SillyBella wrote:
1. Love someone in the normal way, knowing the whole time that you could imprint and end up hurting them the way Sam hurt Leah.

This is something I just can't any of the Quileute werewolves choosing after seeing what Sam and Leah have gone through, and knowing even their most intimate thoughts and even to some extent, I'm sure, sensing their pain. I like to think that none of them would want to take the chance at inflicting that sort of pain on someone they cared about. At least, not if they could help it.
But isn't this the risk we all take when we fall in love? There is always a chance that something will change, that someone will change, and leave for another. As much as you love someone, or know someone, you can never, for certain, be sure of what the future holds. That's the beauty of love, the risk that you are willing to take for the other person. Maybe, for me, that is the key difference between imprinting and human love, the risk factor.

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Post by vampires*do*it*better » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:04 pm

umm...i hope this makes sense :]

i think imprinting is a little different then human love. its kind of unfair b/c it just happens its not like you get a say in it. b/c its like when you imprint, i dont think you can ever get out of it. also, if the person you imprint on dosent have the same feelings, theres nothing you can really do about it. with human love, you can fall in and out.
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Post by forever_is_enough » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:18 pm

I, for one, think that imprinting is not as good as human love. Humans are guided by emotions and prone to this wishy-washy
attitude for "true love". If this so-called love is guided by emotion, wouldn't it be more important than this "gravity moves" stuff? It makes a relationship weaker. For the imprintee, they know that they will always have someone there to catch them if they make a mistake. They don't have to doubt themselves or go through the normal process of falling in love, because it is handed to them on a silver platter. If you don't have a say in your love, then what is the point. The imprinters also do not have a value of true love. They don't have to be lovers, they are there to protect the ones that they imprinted on in any form (friend, boyfriend,etc), so why is this love? Could it possibly be just sensless admiration that they have no power for? I would not like to be imprinted on (although obviously that isnt possible). Sure, I would love to have a boy so devoted to me (what woman wouldn't?!), but I would like to have the choice to say no. In every imprinting case that we have seen so far, they have or are going to end up together. Think of Claire! She is a baby, but her life is already set in stone like a planned marriage. Who know's if she will want to be married ever? Or if she would rather marry somebody else? I know that Quil is her perfect match, but as a teenager, you do not know what true love is. She could think that Bobby Something-or-other in her Math class is the one for her. Eventually will she see that Quil has been waiting for her? Probably. But what is the fun in finding this great First Love if you don't have to fight for him? Or if you don't need to worry about doing something wrong. Claire could go off and cheat or do something horrible and, who knows, Quil might take her back. So yeah, for the books purposes imprinting is a good part of the story, but I can honestly say that I do not think that it is as good as human love (or vampire love hehe).

But I still love Jake :D
and Edward :D :D :D
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Post by Luka » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:36 pm

Well, with imprinting.
What if you had a husband and kids?
And you thought your life was whole, complete?
And then a man comes along and you fall in love with him even though you're married with a family? And he pulls you aside and says "I'm a werewolf we have the thing called imprinting, ect.,ect." Do you choose to ignore him and live your life not fully complete? Or do you leave your life completely, your husband, kids and go with this werewolf-man and be happy?
That's the dilemma.

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Post by Quickening » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:41 pm

This is all a matter of free will. Free will is about having the ability to make mistakes, and to learn from them. I think someone who imprints is going to be happier then someone who is left to find their own love. But I think having the ability to choose our own happiness is better then having it handed to us.

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Post by jsaichua09 » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:48 pm

Is imprinting as good as ordinary human love? For the imprinter? For the imprintee?

I believe that imprinting would be more sure than ordinary human love. It is something that you cannot deny or fall in and out of. If you see it through Sam and Emily's relationship, there hardly is any faux to such passion. The way you mold around each other, it can't be fake. So even though you won't have the choice, why fall for someone that could break your hear, when you already someone who's so readily to be yours?

Does it undermine the worth of love if you have no say about it? Does it make a relationship stronger -- or less meaningful -- if there is no possibility that the imprinter will ever fall out of love?

I think it makes a relationship stronger. Of course it is much too unorthodox for many to accept, but still, many still do believe in love at first sight. "Love isn't a feeling, it's an ability."

How would you feel about either imprinting or being imprinted on?

Being as I know the process of imprinting. How it works, how it is done, etc., I am quite frankly comforted by the sureness of it. No matter what happens, the imprinter will always love you. He/she will want or see nothing else but you. That kind of affection cannot be forged. If I were to be imprinted on, I think I would be able to handle it; let it run its course, and may it turn out into the best way.[/b]

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Re: Imprinting....As good as human love?

Post by NovaAlbion » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:26 pm

December wrote:Is imprinting as good as ordinary human love? For the imprinter? For the imprintee?
What is love? What is imprinting? What are the respective roles of rational choice? Emotional (irrational? ;) ) choice? Instinct? What are their limits and constraints? We have to know these in order to answer the question.

It took me a number of years to come up with answers that work for me. I have rejected a lot of the Agape/Eros debate. It always seemed to me that the word "love" had a pretty universal application. Yes, you could categorize it by types of relationships, and quibble about insignificant differences between the categories, but the philosophers (and the merely argumentive) never seemed to get down to the essential and shared elements of love.

To me, love is the personal, mental and emotional recognition and acceptance that, to a degree, your happiness is dependent on the happiness of another. This implies that, as a general rule, it would be in lover's own self interest to do those things that would promote the welfare of the other. Obviously, this is a one-way, internal relationship. When requited, it is, essentially, two, reciprocated, one-way bonds. The type of love is often a function of its intensity and the nature of the relationship between the individuals.

Please note: The "Welfare" of a loved one cannot help but be limited by the "lover's" knowledge, perspective and abilities. Also, it may or may not coincide with what the "lovee" wants and/or thinks would be in their own best interests. And finally, there is the constant choice and the internal battle of values, priorities and competing interests and claims on resources. (Is it best for us as a couple, or just an individual partner? Is the long term cost worth the short term gain? Paint my lover's nails or take our child to soccer practice? Work overtime because it is the nature of the job, or risk being fired so we can have our "date night" as scheduled? Yes, communication is important. Still choices must be made.)

What is imprinting? First, let's look at what it is not.
- Imprinting is not love. As we see in Sam and Emily's relationship, it does not preclude love. Similar in this respect to an arranged marriage, love may grow but is not necessarily a part of the relationship.
- Imprinting is not happiness. While it may remove a degree of uncertainty from one's life, as we have seen in the case of Sam and Emily there still exist certain unhappy elements in the relationship, e.g. maiming/guilt, betrayal/guilt.
- Imprinting only establishes and defines a relationship between two individuals. Yes, the ultimate purpose of imprinting is to establish a mating relationship, but it seems that it can be quite dynamic until that is established, e.g. Quil/Claire.
- While a love relationship can grow gradually and both involved parties gradually become aware of their feelings, where imprinting is, by definition, sudden, although the imprintee may not even be aware of it, again Quil/Claire.
- While in a love relationship, the commitment, or fidelity, of each party may vary over time or be completely extinguished, the werewolf's mating focus is permanently fixed on the imprintee. It is implied in canon that this imprintee centered attention is sufficient to nearly compel life-long reciprocation.
- It has not been shown how imprinting impacts the long-term welfare of the imprintee, the werewolf, and/or the couple. Does the werewolf respond to what the imprintee wants, or to what, in the werewolf's opinion, is "best" for the imprintee? To what degree does the happiness of the werewolf depend on the happiness of the imprintee? To what degree can the werewolf affect the happiness of the imprintee? Sam and Emily seem to have found a degree of happiness, and Kim is ecstatic. But we don't know about Jared, Quil or Claire. Taha Aki wanted to grow old and die with his third wife so much that he gave up phasing. He mourned her loss mightily and gave up phasing - back to human form. But the third wife seems to have made her sacrifice, not to save her husband but to save her sons. "They were all young sons, not yet men, and she knew they would die when their father failed." (Eclipse, page 257) What does that say about her feelings about Taha Aki?

December wrote:Is imprinting as good as ordinary human love? For the imprinter? For the imprintee?
The answer is: It depends. Imprinting establishes a relationship which is likely to become as happy and loving as any human relationship for both parties. Does it compel love? No. Does it create instant happiness? Not necessarily. Can it create unhappiness? Not necessarily. Is it as good as ordinary human love? Just like human love is highly variable, there are good points (fidelity) and bad points (well, fidelity - to someone else, or if the imprintee decides they don't want it).

Is a relationship better, does it bring the couple "more happiness", is their welfare enhanced if the relationship is initiated by instinct/mythical power driven imprinting or initiated by instinct/testosterone/estrogen/pheromone driven love? Seems a wash to me. Couples make of their relationships what they will.

December wrote:Does it undermine the worth of love if you have no say about it? Does it make a relationship stronger -- or less meaningful -- if there is no possibility that the imprinter will ever fall out of love?
Once again, the answer is: It depends. How much do you value commitment? Fidelity? How much do you value (as an imprintee) absolute commitment by some one who is NOT your particular "ideal" mate, at least initially? (Can we say stalking here?) Especially if you don't think that you are ready, or at the stage of life to make that type of relationship? Or you have standards (superficial or substantial - height, weight, skin quality, grooming, car, academic standing, age, profession, social status, race, parents, associations, behavior, criminal record, military experience, dietary habits, style/attire, ethnicity, sense of humor, sports, skills, sexual experience - or the lack thereof, conversational ability, self-confidence, eye-sight, generosity, kind-hearted, degree of self-centered, etc.) that aren't met? Or if you were planning on school, or travel or dating the field or just parting hardy for a few years before settling down? (Other than meals at Emily's and the occasional bonfire, it seems that the pack has a pretty restricted social life - Jacob is pretty wasted because of patrolling/lack of sleep. Do you continue to do your pack work, party with your imprintee, try to do both, or pick him/her up after the party?)

With an imprinted werewolf, there would be an element of security and confidence that would contribute to a feeling of peace and/or a reduction in jealousy. But that is gained by human couples by demonstrating long-term constancy in their choices. Still, there is always a degree of doubt because we are all flawed.

December wrote:How would you feel about either imprinting or being imprinted on?
The answer is: It depends. Whether as a werewolf or an imprintee, if I was in a committed relationship, I would be devastated, I would livid, I would rail against fate. Yes, eventually I would accept it, but I wouldn't be happy about it for quite awhile. I would feel especially betrayed if I had no reason to expect this. (Once again the Quileute council not doing well by their youth. Another rant, another place.)

If I knew it could happen and was not in a committed relationship, I think it would be kind of cool. You get to hang with the tribal leadership and some amusing guys and girls. You've identified someone who's likely to be, if they aren't already, the love of your life if he/she isn't already.

Being loved is the world's most powerful aphrodisiac. What is the key trigger for "falling in love"? In the song When I Fall In Love, the lyricist states, "it will be forever or I'll never fall in love." Further more, "When I fall in love, it will be completely or I'll never give may heart ..." When does the lyricist fall in love? "And the moment when I feel that you feel that way too is when I fall in love with you" (Fortunately, this has been covered sooo many times that I am not dating myself.)

December wrote:What do you think Stephenie wants us to think about imprinting?
I don't think that she had a particular "target audience" intent, as in "I want my readers to think/feel fill in the blank about imprinting!" I think she was just telling a story, found a concept that fleshed out characters, added potential conflict to the story, and generally had a bit of fun with this fantastical, mythical "power". Seeing as she has made a "big deal" out of imprinting, but hasn't used it in the plot yet, except for a little comic relief, I expect it to be a key plot point in Breaking Dawn.

As fans, we tend to assign way-too-much meaning to things authors write into their stories when, just like Stephenie, they're "just" telling a fun, interesting story. Yes, good authors have a full palette of symbols at their command. But, ya' know, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Last edited by NovaAlbion on Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by diamond encrusted » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:39 pm

Imprinting is not a bad thing, yet, its not a good thing either.

please keep in mind it is only an example

Just because, say, Jacob, imprinted on, say, Bella, it doesn't necessarily mean that Bella will love Jacob. If she does, at least she knows Jacob will love her forever. He can't help it.

But, if Bella doesn't love Jacob back, He can't help but love her. It'd hurt him and he wouldn't be able to control it. He will always love her.

And say you were Bella, knowing that Jacob will love you forever and forever, you would feel guilty because you love Edward and you always will. Edward will love you back just the same and when you [possibly] get turned into a vampire, not only will you love him and him love you for all of eternity, but you will be with him for all of eternity.

And Jacob will still love Bella. He will stand on the sidelines watching you and Edward. Loving you but most probably hating Edward till the day he dies. Wouldn't you feel guilty about that? You'd feel that it is your responsibility to love Jacob back. Of course, if you already love Jacob back, then its not a problem. But if you don't, people will be really hurt.

please keep in mind it is only an example

Okay, I'm sorry if that doesn't make sense or answer the topic question or whatever, but thats my opinion on imprinting. It depends on the situation and the people a lot. And sorry if it says somewhere that you will imprint on the people who you're truly and completely meant to be with for the rest of your life and you are destined by fate or something to spend your life loving and living for that one person. Oh, and sorry if it says somewhere that the person you imprint on will love you back, in which case, disregard the whole post...
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What I think

Post by AliceMarieHale » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:16 pm

Well imprinting is a hrd thing to agree or disagree. I cant say which I favor more. Say for example that a boy loves a girl, but she may not love him back. Who knows if he'll ever get over her. Then the imprinter (he) suffers. But then if she falls for him then all is well.

Then again what of she does not love him back and he goes baserk? What if he forces her because he is selfish? What happens then?

This confuses me I do not know what to decide and how i feel. On the one hand I see both sides of the story here. So its hard for me to side. So I can not say whether I like or dislike imprinting.
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Post by *Edward's Isabella* » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:20 pm

Is imprinting as good as ordinary human love? For the imprinter? For the imprintee?

I think that imprinting itself is just a stronger way to fall in luv so yes I think it's just as good if not better.

Does it undermine the worth of love if you have no say about it?Does it make a relationship stronger -- or less meaningful -- if there is no possibility that the imprinter will ever fall out of love?

I think it makes it stronger.

How would you feel about either imprinting or being imprinted on?

Well what else could I feel but love 4 the other person? I mean, the way Jake explains it it sounds like the other person would be you are perfect match so....

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