Was Edward an idiot to leave Bella in NM?

Welcome to our debate forum where we will have hot topics for you to discuss weekly. Just as a reminder we will only leave topics open for the week and then start a new one.
Locked
Edward_Addict
Learning to Love Green
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:05 pm
Location: at THE meadow, waiting for Edward. =)

Post by Edward_Addict » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:20 am

Sasha wrote:As I said above, I don't believe he left for Bella. I think he left for himself.
i disagree. he left for bella. there was nothing in his leaving for himself exept heartache. read the new moon extra entitled "rosalie" first, then tell me if you still believe that. :shock:
[url=http://www.mybannermaker.com/link.php?nurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mybannermaker.com][img]http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9229/mybannerglitterf1ded84cje4.gif[/img][/url]

[img]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm23/death_prinsez/heartcopy.png[/img]

banners by me and hakumei@vesperarium
avatar by Enough4 @ Vesperarium =)

mandustries
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:09 am
Location: Waiting for the next rainstorm ... in Austin, TX
Contact:

Post by mandustries » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:24 am

We meet again LisaCullenAz. ;)
LisaCullenAZ wrote:and this by Joanne:
EDWARD has never experienced this type of love before. I don't care how many minds he has read...it is nothing compared to actually going through it yourself. His intentions were above and beyond good...like a parent...it is a learning process and they both have learned many things.
Isn't this the coolest thing? That Edward has a learning experience? Even though vampires are supposed to be unchanging and unbending... he continues to adapt and alter himself to the situation he's in. His human side is more stimulated and awakened by Bella's presence. It's so amazing to watch.

*swoon*

Oh, Edward.
And Edward himself doesn't believe he has a soul. I mean, come on, right? :)
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/mandustries/Twilight/RWV/runswithvampires_banner-1.jpg[/img]
[size=75][color=white]Banner made by me![/color]
[color=black]I'll never hear thunder the same way again.
Proud Cullenist—Member of [/color][color=yellow]Alice House[/size][/color]

Edward_Addict
Learning to Love Green
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:05 pm
Location: at THE meadow, waiting for Edward. =)

Post by Edward_Addict » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:39 am

mandustries wrote:We meet again LisaCullenAz. ;)
LisaCullenAZ wrote:and this by Joanne:
EDWARD has never experienced this type of love before. I don't care how many minds he has read...it is nothing compared to actually going through it yourself. His intentions were above and beyond good...like a parent...it is a learning process and they both have learned many things.
Isn't this the coolest thing? That Edward has a learning experience? Even though vampires are supposed to be unchanging and unbending... he continues to adapt and alter himself to the situation he's in. His human side is more stimulated and awakened by Bella's presence. It's so amazing to watch.

*swoon*

Oh, Edward.
And Edward himself doesn't believe he has a soul. I mean, come on, right? :)

RIGHT!!! how can someone like edward not have a soul?!
[url=http://www.mybannermaker.com/link.php?nurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mybannermaker.com][img]http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9229/mybannerglitterf1ded84cje4.gif[/img][/url]

[img]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm23/death_prinsez/heartcopy.png[/img]

banners by me and hakumei@vesperarium
avatar by Enough4 @ Vesperarium =)

mensrea
Settled in Forks
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:41 pm
Location: Lee's Summit, Missouri
Contact:

eh...

Post by mensrea » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:16 am

I don't think we can make this about whether or not Edward did the right thing or the smart thing. Edward did the only thing he could do... Many of you have already made the point that Edward did what he did because of who he is. I agree with this. I don't believe that what he did made their love any stronger. Sure, they learned a painful lesson, and like many of you have pointed out, he made things more complicated for himself.

Regardless of all these things, I believe that Edward leaving in NM was absolutely essential for the story line and for Bella's character development. I didn't like his absence anymore than anyone else, but it had to happen. When Edward left, Bella was an empty, lifeless shell. But slowly she began to heal. Impossibly, she fell in love again. Maybe her love for Jacob isn't as strong as what she feels for Edward, but I have no doubt that it would have gotten stronger had she given herself to Jacob 100%. Another thing... "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"... I don't mean that their love grew more intense with their separation. I only mean that when something you have grown to love or rely on is no longer in your reach, your desire for it increases. Longing combined with their intense love for one another made their reunited relationship seem so much more profound. True love is true love...

Don't you guys feel like you know so much more about Edward and Bella's personality and nature after reading NM? I know for me, it deepened my understanding of both of them.
<a href="http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm250/jaclynjade/?action=view&current=twilight-4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm250/jaclynjade/twilight-4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

EB fanatic
Jump Starting Bella's Truck
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:30 am

Post by EB fanatic » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:59 am

edward really fears for bella's safety and that's one of the biggest things about her that he keeps in mind. what he did wasn't bad but it wasn't good either. he broke both himself and bella because of his mistake but he also realized that their love for one another was equal and that bella was all along superman and not just lois lane.

edward didn't realize that he did have other choices but that moment on her birthday haunted him to the point where the only decision he could reconcile with was leaving bella. he didn't make this choice at the spur of the moment either. he'd been talking himself in to leaving bella ever since the day in the hospital in twilight so he had a lot of time to think about what he was planning on doing. in his mind, he was trying to save bella's soul and give her the life he thought that she deserved. he had good intentions for her but the way he went about carrying out those intentions was in a way wrong

Sasha
Lured by the scent
Posts: 1296
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:19 pm
Location: riding motorcycles, kissing boys...

Post by Sasha » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:54 am

Cocoa wrote:
Sasha wrote:And then he came back, and it was as if the whole thing never happened.
I agreed with most of what you said though this last line caught me a bit. Only because the entire book of Eclipse was about Edward having to face the consequences of that initial action.
For me, Eclipse was less about Edward facing consequences as Edward facing side effects. But this may just be me still being bitter about the way Bella handled Edward's return.
[img]http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z61/SashaSav/iamlukeskywalker.jpg[/img]
Proud Member of [b][color=darkred]The Clipper Gang[/color][/b] :evil:

[b][size=75]Banner made by the lovely Paulina_x!!
Avvie from Morriganscrow[/size][/b]

leahfellinlovwithtwilight
Banging out dents with Tyler
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:49 pm
Location: clearly team edward
Contact:

really,

Post by leahfellinlovwithtwilight » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:55 pm

he was just trying to do what he thought was best for her. i know it didnt work out, but yah. he wasnt an idiot for leaving her, he was an idiot for thinking it would work. especially if you read the extra on stephenie's site, it shows that he seriously really didnt want to in the first place, and that he was doing it only because he truly loves bella
oh, and freekin team jane! hope she finds a nice vampire boy thats not quite as hot as edward, but pretty freekin close!

"when i got home, all my things were in the garage."
edward cullen

December
Banging out dents with Tyler
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:16 pm
Location: Ars Longa Vita Brevis

Post by December » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:35 pm

Stephenie wrote:If Edward had never tried to leave Bella, would it be right to say that he truly loved her?
This is of course the right question. THE question. One I should have asked in the first place, if I'd had my wits about me. Thank you.

For me the answer is simple. Loving Bella as he does, could Edward have acted differently? No. Not knowing what he knows (or thinks he knows). Not believing what he believes about what loving someone means. As Baseball Girl says, Edward has to be Edward. This isn't to say that you can't love someone as deeply as he does without making the same choices. As Cocoa pointed out, that has a lot to do with personality -- and there are people here to whom it's not an attractive personality. So on second thoughts, perhaps it's not THE question -- you can believe that Edward couldn't have done otherwise, and still find fault with him. But it's a great way of putting his choice into perspective.

Edward is certain -- heartbreakingly certain -- that holding fast to Bella will hurt her more unspeakably than leaving her ever could. He's been trying to ignore the prickings of his conscience ever since the fatal moment he spoke her name in Bio class -- but Jasper's lapse turns nagging doubts into cold conviction: loving him will be the death of her, or worse. Whereas...her seventeen-year-old heart will heal: everything he has seen and heard in ninety-odd years of mind reading assures him of it. And for Edward (as he insists in TW), loving someone means doing whatever it takes to keep them safe.

And yet...we read that awful, awful scene and can't help wondering: if you loved someone as passionately as Edward loves Bella, how could you do that to her in cold blood? Even allowing for the fact that Bella is our narrator, it's SO hard to enter into his feelings. But then, we are at a terrific imaginative disadvantage here, on every count:

• We know what Edward doesn't: that he is horribly, horribly wrong about Bella. She's never going to get over him; the whole calculation is founded on a disastrously mistaken premise. Leaving Bella will hurt her more desperately than anything life could throw at her: worse than Victoria, or the Volturi, or the grief of leaving her human life behind. We witness that pain, and we think: no good intentions can justify inflicting this on her.

• we don't know what Edward does, not the way he knows it: the grim awareness of what becoming a vampire will do to Bella. At this point -- the opening of NM -- we haven't really got a clue. Yes, Edward has told Bella something of his hideous struggles that first day in Biology class, but he's been at great pains to keep the darker side of vampire existence from her (and us). No wonder it's almost impossible to understand how the thought of Bella's becoming a vampire could drive Edward to hurt her so cruelly.

If you take the horrific side more seriously, his actions become a lot more intelligible. I think Stephenie means us to see it this way, but it's easy to miss the point, because she's gone to some trouble to show us the sparkly, delightful superhero side of being an immortal vampire and not the ugliness and horror. (Even now, two books later, it's something that isn't completely vivid to us -- as discussed at some length on the Choices thread). In a way, the entire series is balanced on this ambiguity -- or even ambivalence on Stephenie's part -- about what it means to become a vampire. Whether it's the miraculous gift that Bella initially sees it as: not just eternal love, but immortality, speed, strength, beauty. Or a half-life of unnatural changelessness and loathsome desires and a painful, unending battle against temptation. It makes quite a difference, which one it is -- and the answer isn't really clear. Look at Alice or Emmett and it's hard to see the torment or the black desires. Look at Jasper, or Edward in his darker moods, and it's hard to see this as a gift. Angels or demons....

This opposition remains completely unresolved at the end of TW. Bella is too dazzled -- by naive fantasies of immortality, by her own infatuation with everything that Edward is -- to see the life of a vampire as anything but winning the lottery. Edward is too stricken by the contrast between his own dark cravings and the innocence of this human girl to even consider dragging her down into the abyss with him. Nine months later, the opposition has become more blurred. As Truelove1 has said before, the miracle of being loved by this human girl -- truly loved for keeps -- begins to change Edward's view of himself as a monster beyond redemption. Bella has exchanged her fairyland visions of a glittering Happy Ever After for a sober sense of the hard reality. They are on the same page about what it is that Bella is choosing; they can see eye to eye about what will make her happy. And we are able to see that complex reality too.

But back at the beginning of NM, the horrific side of a vampire's existence barely impinges on our imagination: all we can see is a boy whose morbid self-loathing drives him to break his true love's heart. You have to really make an effort to wrest your minds away from what we see -- Bella's pain -- to what Edward knows and believes, and believe it too, We're still too under the spell of Bella's insouciance to feel Edward's visceral horror ourselves. To understand how he can bring himself to look her in the eyes and speak those cruel words.

• The biggest imaginative impediment may be the one Cocoa touched on. How many of us would have the hardihood to do what Edward does, even if it really were the only way to keep Bella from harm? I have some sympathy for the view that if you truly love someone, maybe there are things you can't bring yourself to do to them, even for their good. Just. cant. do it.

At the least, it depends on the sort of person you are. It takes steeliness and a kind of ghastly courage to be able to hurt Bella so unspeakably because it's the right thing in the long run. (And perhaps the same staggering self-command that enables him to subdue his desire for Bella's blood in the first place). It's totally, totally Edward.

And of course, if he does bite her in the end, that is exactly what he is going to have to do. Hurt her unspeakably. Because what matters most is her happiness. Only this time around, it won't be what he has decided is best for her, but what they have chosen together. He'll look into her eyes, as Truelove has written elsewhere, and see what he needs to see to steel himself to it: that nothing in the world matters to her but him. And this time he won't have to leave her to suffer alone.
[img]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff118/DecembersPhotos/icefogbranchesphotocropmore.jpg[/img]
adultae lexiconum recipientes nuntiis singulis

Bookflower
Settled in Forks
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:04 pm
Location: South of England

I can understand Edward... even if I couldn't do that.

Post by Bookflower » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:04 pm

I can understand why Edward left, even if I'm not sure that I could ever bring myself to do that. It would take an immense amount of love, and never having felt that, I don't think I'm really in a position to judge Edward.

However, what does haunt me is what Jake says about this near the end of Eclipse, something along the lines of 'Just give me another year, I know I could make her hapy.' And 'No, you don't know whether you could be happy without him; you ever tried.'

This really really haunts me. Maybe Edward was right to leave, just to give that chance to Jake, and to make Bella happy with a normal life... And then I start think, should he have come back? Would Bella have healed? Would he have 'killed' himself if Bella really did become happy again? And if he had to kill himself to stop himself from going back, then that would have been the ultimate display of love...? And as that would have been, then surely they should have been together?

As you see, I can hardly make sense of what I am thinking, so don't worry if you don't follow that at all. Just some thoughts.
'A girl has to kiss a lot of frogs before she can say for certain that she's found her prince.' - Meg Cabot

twilightgeek1
Settled in Forks
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: The Deserts of Forks

Post by twilightgeek1 » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:10 pm

IF Bella chose to "be with Jacob"...she wouldn't be living a full life. When she was considering it in NM, when she almost kissed Jacob, she realized that this love would only be second best...it would be settling for some semblance of happiness...but not the true happiness she'd have with Edward.
"AL"

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest