Was Edward an idiot to leave Bella in NM?

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Still Betting on Alice
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Post by Still Betting on Alice »

December wrote:So here's another way of putting the question we're discussing:


Stephenie Wrote:

If Edward had never tried to leave Bella, would it be right to say that he truly loved her?
I can't seem to answer this question without considering what I already feel about Edward's leaving'that I think it was an unselfish and self sacrificing love that made him leave in the first place. So I was trying to justify why Edward would not try to leave considering all the things that brought him to his decision. Since I can not separate myself from that mentality I struggled with my answer for a while...

The answer I came up with for me is this: If Edward had never tried to leave it would not negate his love, but would set the love on a different path. Without that unselfish sacrifice I wonder what would have shaped their love and how it would have formed. How would Edward justify staying if he still felt all those same things before he left? How would he ever know how Bella truly felt? How would Bella have shown her willingness to sacrifice herself for him if she couldn't run to Volterra to save him? When would Bella have had her epiphany, if she ever could? How would Bella ever know the true price of being with Edward forever?

I would still believe that he truly loves Bella because I believe that everything we have seen him do and say is out of love for her. Edward not trying to leave couldn't erase all the feelings and experiences that have made me believe he loves her, but I could see that love being'different'maybe an unsure ending.
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dsolo
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Was Edward an idiot?

Post by dsolo »

I have to give kudos to unquenchable thirst 34? (I think that's right) for bringing up the fact that the Cullens should have been prepared for Bella to have some kind of klutzy accident at their house involving blood. I hadn't really thought about it, but it was just a matter of time. Alice should have been using foam plates and the whole house should be padded. Or, it should be like that commercial where everything is covered in bubblewrap. They don't sleep, how hard would it be to throw bubblewrap on everything when Bella visits? Then Edward would never have left and we wouldn't have had a Twilight Saga. Oh wait, never mind - Cancel the bubblewrap!
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Post by ouisa »

When December first asked me to write the opening post(s) with her she did not have the part about forgiveness in them so I did not address it in my post. I'd like to address it now.

I was asked to write the "yes he's an idiot" argument. And I do think he was a blockhead. But that doesn't mean I condemn him for his choice, or that I think that the choice was "wrong." I just think he was mistaken, without extra judgement.

So....yes Edward was shortsighted and underestimated Bella when he chose to leave (read....stupid) but it is a totally forgivable and in many way understandable action. Geographee put this so excellent in her post earlier today.

Edward is not infallible. Edward is not perfect. Yes I think he is a blockhead but NO ONE was happier to see him grow out of that during Eclipse than I was. In fact, when I read the last chapter of Eclipse, where Edward finally "gets" it and realizes he can not choose for Bella, that he cannot make her happy his way, I was content. I called my best friend and said "okay I forgive him."

Now I would like to attempt Stephenie's question. (Squee....deep breath....) Steph, you always throw me for loop. Your questions seem so simple but then take so much pondering.

Can we say Edward loved her if he didn't leave?

The answer I finally came to was....I don't know. I agree with what Truelove1 said, that his leaving was inevitable. I do think it was a natural conclusion to how he was thinking already in Twilight. But I cannot say that if he had stayed it would mean he loved her less. Love is hard to measure, to judge or to quantify and it's judgement is based solely on how the beholder values the form that love takes.

I know December (and I assume Truelove1) really value Edward's protectiveness. December seems to value that as a characteristic a male partner. People like me (and Tennyo) don't value this aspect of loving as highly. In fact I don't want to be protected at all. For me, I desire and value a partner that truly sees who I am and honors my personality, desires and interests. So Edward not realizing the depth of Bella's connection to him and his disregard for her feelings bugs me more than it would December. (I know because we've spent countless emails discussing these aspects to the B/E relationship.)

The point of this is, to me Edward staying would signify the greater love, to someone else his leaving would mean he truly loved her. It's all in your frame of reference.
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misfit
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From a man's view

Post by misfit »

From my view it seems like he was doing what he had to do. That doesn't mean he liked it that doesn't mean it was the best choice it was only choice he found in front of him. He loves her more than anything and in leaving he is trying to protect what he loves. You have to remember he never planned on "turning" her he was always content with her remaining human. He felt he was condemning her soul something he couldn't live with doing. Now at the end of NM he was starting to see that might not be the case and he also sees what a mistake it was to leave her.

Does he regret it sure do I forgive him oh yeah he was making the best choice he could with the information and the beliefs he held.

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Post by unquenchable_thirst34 »

December wrote:So here's another way of putting the question we're discussing:


Stephenie Wrote:

If Edward had never tried to leave Bella, would it be right to say that he truly loved her?
To this question, I would say yes, becuase the alternative would be that his leaving her was a sign of his love for her, rather than a rash decision made in a frenzied moment of protectionism.

I can see how it could be constued as a sign of his love: "because I love you so much, I can actually leave you for your own good", but really, I don't even think that that it's Edward's decision as to what is Bella's "own good". But, that isn't on discussion, at the moment, so I'll keep my 21st century, feminist view to myself :P

As for the question of forgiveness, if I were in Bella's shoes, I think that I could bring myself to forgive Edward, except that it would take a hell of a lot longer for it to happen, and he'd need to work for it. But because of the amount of love that I would feel for him, I'd bring myself to it. And because of the fact that he's, well, Edward :D
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Post by Leah (SWACM) »

If Edward had never tried to leave Bella, would it be right to say that he truly loved her?

No, I don't think so. After all, he is dangerous, their relationship
is not healthy, it would have been better for Bella if she had never fallen in love with him. These are facts.

Now, just try to put yourselves in Edward's shoes:

You are 107 years old, you have spent more than a lifetime of denial and discipline, because you don't want to be a monster.
You don't want to hurt innocents.

And then there comes this girl - more innocent, breakable and beautiful than anything else you've ever seen - and you fall in love with her.
And despite the hideous monster that you believe yourself to be,
she loves you too, in the most unbelievable, unconditional way.
So, this is the closest thing to heaven you can imagine.
Her love is like your personal oxygen.
You love her.
You need her.

BUT you know, that sooner or later
you will hurt her. You know, that you'll be either her death or her doom. You are dangerous. You are no good for her.

Knowing all these things, could you stay? Could you stay and still tell me you truly loved that one person that gives you everything you've ever longed for?

I don't think so.
His decision was stupid - without a doubt - but nontheless inevitable. He had to try.
I would've done the same.
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Post by TheVampireGirl »

I was so shocked when Edward left, I couldn't even cry. :cry: However, he did have a good reason for leaving, because he didn't want to put Bella in anymore danger. I think this showed that Edward is flawed, just like everyone else, and he makes mistakes too.
And so the lion fell in love with the lamb . . .

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Post by yinyang1310 »

I was re-reading New Moon and noticed something that I hadnt before (no doubt others did though)

pg 389 (paperback) " Our leaving didnt do you any good at all, did it?" Alice murmured....
"That was never the point,though, was it? It's not like you left for my benefit"

Its ironic because that was EXACTLY the point of the Cullens leaving.
I agree with everyone who said that Edward leaving was him sacrificing his happiness to do what (he believed) was right for Bella. At the moment the only outcomes facing Bella with Edward in her life (death at the hand of edward/situaiton stemming from close proximity with vampires- or becoming eternally dammed and subjected to horrific bloodlust) were all (in Edwards mind) horrific- he wanted to protect Bella.

Although im sure he was aweare that it would also affect Bella i find it totally understandable that Edward's reasoning that a clean break would help her get over it would have worked with "anyone less mental" than Bella. HOwever WRONG i believe his 'means' to his end was!

I believe most of Edwards aforementioned reasons to be very understandable if we were him. we have to understand that this is a 107 year old vampire- his experiences and mindset would be radically different to that of a normal 17 year old boyfriend.

I wish they hadnt had to go through that- but at the same time it did make Edward realize the depth of Bella's love and Bella realize that Edward was hers to keep. making them more eqauls.
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Post by Shadow Grrl »

Hmm... I haven't read all these posts, but was I really the only one who expected him to leave in New Moon? I mean, before he started to get all distantI sort of knew he would anyway.
And... (don't kill me, please) I don't think it was stupid. Let me clarify: I don't believe the actual act of leaving her was stupid. I do, on the other hand, believe the way he went about it was stupid. Lying like that was rediculous. I think maybe... just maybe that if Bella knew the facts at the time, she would have just a smidge better, and had gone after him much earlier. Or, in fact, been able to convince him otherwise.
I think he was an idiot to underestimate her, but I don't think the decision to leave her was idiotic. Though I was swallowing big lumps in my throat for quite some time... I stil think it was his mind's way of going about it best.
Also, it made them stronger!
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Post by Edward_Addict »

when edward left bella in new moon, my heart broke. but i believe that he left for a good reason. a reason that made sense to him (and him only i think :lol: ) so he stuck with it. we find out that he left bella so that she will have a "normal" life and so she wouldn't be in danger anymore. i beleieve that he truly believed that her mind was just a sieve and that she'd forget him. (not)

the problem with his thinking is bella IS a danger magnet, and even with him gone, especially with him gone and not there protecting her, she could be in even more danger.

also, he was stupid to promise that it would be as if he never existed. even in our human lives, we can't just forget someone. so he was stupid in thinking that just because he was gone, him, the guy she loved so much, then bella would forget him and move on. i mean cmon!! how stupid could he get?! he's edward cullen, no girl can forget him, especially not bella.

but he's already learned his lesson from that stupid move. and i don't think he'll do another stupid move like that again. :D
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