Are Vampires Dead?

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dsolo
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Are Vampires Dead?

Post by dsolo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:05 am

By the way, I agree with Joy and Carlisle. I think Edward has a soul, and I think he is still alive, so it's still with him. However is you think he is all sweetness and light, go over to Twilight fanfiction and read "The Killing Moon". It's about Edward's dark side, and it's chilling.

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Post by CullenxLove » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:34 am

vampires are like the living dead, there obviously not dead since they can like walk and think and do things, i think when they become a vampire there starting a new life kind of i dont know there still the same person there just well better...stronger, faster, and things like that..there traits are intensified. there heart doesnt beat and there dead..just not completely, there the living dead..
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Post by December » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:49 am

dsolo wrote:"Carlisle has a theory....he believes that we all bring something of our strongest human traits with us into the next LIFE, where they are intensified."

Bella's next question is - "What did he bring into the next LIFE, and the others?"
Nice observation. It's quite true that the books don't talk about vampires as being dead (though of course Edward also talks about "when we die or whatever it is that we do" (NM p.20) -- so he doesn't see it as quite the same life as we have, either). And it's true, as mandustries points out, that vampires differ from ghosts and angels in being corporeal and, well, terribly human-like -- and this makes them seem very much alive . But I still do think, as I wrote earlier, that

there is an ambiguity in how we are invited to think about this. ...Stephenie herself seems undecided about what exactly it is that Bella is choosing. If it is something less than death, it is still much, much more than simply metamorphosing -- like a caterpillar -- into a different kind of creature.


It's hard for me to view the transformation that Bella is contemplating as simply abandoning her human body for that of an alien life form. If only because of the seriousness with which are asked to view the step that she's taking. It may be a wedding that Edward and Bella are planning, but there is a funereal tone to the end of Eclipse. The atmosphere of loss that surrounds Bella's choice feels to me like it goes beyond the simple grief at separation that any bride setting sail for a foreign country would feel, or the fear of the unknown that, say, a young Quileute boy might feel imagining what it will be like to become a werewolf. So to reiterate my original question: do we need to think of becoming a vampire as something akin to death, at any rate, to take it as seriously as Stephenie wants us to?
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Post by ouisa » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:55 am

But December perhaps it is the ambiguity of the vampire life and Bella's final outcome that allows us to enjoy the story fully. Perhaps if we were set on the idea that Bella indeed was going to die it would come to taint the joy we feel on her behalf. Yes the loss of her family, friends and clutzy old life is tragic (and beautiful) but it is the hope of a life with Edward that makes her choice, unlike that of Juliet, one that we can ultimately be happy about. On the opposite side of that, if the change and the price Bella is paying to be with Edward wasn't so severe, it would not be as rewarding to read and this tale would be quickly forgotten instead of endlessly debated by swoony fangirls.

Life and stories are so much more interesting when there are shades of grey.
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dsolo
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Are Vampires Dead?

Post by dsolo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:57 am

You make a good point about new brides leaving for a foreign country and never seeing their families again. That is exactly what will happen to Bella. All the rest were changed at a time when travel and communication weren't as easy as today. Emmett was the latest one changed in 1935, and at that time poor people did not own phones and travel beyond one's immediate vicinity was rare. Except for Rosalie, none of the rest seemed to be as tightly bonded to their human families. This is going to be a very serious change for Bella, as she will essentially be dead to the people of Forks and her parents. Her biggest regret seems to be losing contact with her parents, but she seems to be ready for that next step. Charlie loves her, but she hasn't impacted his life much. He still leaves her alone a lot, and continues with his normal bachelor lifestyle. Renee is busy with her new husband, and while she loves Bella, it was only a matter of time before Bella was off to college, career and marriage. I still believe she is choosing a different type of life, not death.

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Post by villy » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:03 pm

Paris_Falls wrote:I think that Stephenie Meyer gave us an indication of aging, actually, when I think back on it. The Volturi, because of their age, actually look different from younger vampires. Their skin is papery almost, translucent. I would consider this transformation of their bodies as aging. The aging process being an indication of life.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of vampires aging, but it makes sense. To quote from my own post on page 9, Stephenie has described vampires' skin as 'hardened, frozen into a kind of living stone'. Therefore, it only makes sense that they can age physically in a sense. Which reiterates my belief that vampires are not dead.

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Post by mandustries » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:37 pm

villy wrote:
Paris_Falls wrote:I think that Stephenie Meyer gave us an indication of aging, actually, when I think back on it. The Volturi, because of their age, actually look different from younger vampires. Their skin is papery almost, translucent. I would consider this transformation of their bodies as aging. The aging process being an indication of life.
Hmm, I hadn't thought of vampires aging, but it makes sense. To quote from my own post on page 9, Stephenie has described vampires' skin as 'hardened, frozen into a kind of living stone'. Therefore, it only makes sense that they can age physically in a sense. Which reiterates my belief that vampires are not dead.
They "weather" like actual rocks. :)
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Post by ouisa » Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:45 pm

The Volturi's "skin condition" comes from inactivity not aging.

The Denali are quite old too and still have smooth marble skin. So one cannot use aging as a "sign of life" in the vampires (not sure the same can be said about laziness).

Did you hear that Alcyone...I'm calling your boy lazy! Now come out and play!
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Post by Alcyone » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:39 pm

ouisa wrote:Did you hear that Alcyone...I'm calling your boy lazy! Now come out and play!
Oh, shut up.


Now, to those of you that don't know me, my name is Alcyone and I'm obsessed with the Volturi.

*A chorus of "Hi Alcyone" echoes in the wide room*

Because I'm obsessed, I have an unhealthy amount of knowledge about said sadistic vampire group. So, I'm going to set the record straight on my baby (Yes, Aro is my baby. And yes, Aro pwns Edward always) and co.
Paris_Falls wrote:I think that Stephenie Meyer gave us an indication of aging, actually, when I think back on it. The Volturi, because of their age, actually look different from younger vampires. Their skin is papery almost, translucent. I would consider this transformation of their bodies as aging. The aging process being an indication of life.
That is an interesting theory, but I would like to share a piece of an interview the staff of the Italian Twilight website had with Stephenie.
Tw Staff: Could you tell us more about the peculiarity of the Volturi's skin? Or would it give away too much on future plots?"

Stephenie: For me it's not like aging, but it's more like petrification, they never go anywhere, they're not very active. In my mind it was like year and years of dust settling on their skin. Tanya and her sister the Denali family are over a thousand years old but they look like Carlisle as they're still very active. I imagine that they lived (volturi) in a tower in the outskirts of town, the prison would be a very good place for them, no one would suspect anything.
Full interview can be found here.

Bolding added by me. It's not aging at all. It's simply the reason why one should always exercise, even vampires. You'e going to need to find a new defense for pro-life vampires because aging left the building with Elvis to hunt down tequila and they ain't coming back (I'm actually joining them soon. Mmm tequila shots...).



Moving on to topic, we have a set way to determine life. If the object in question meets all of them, it can be safely concluded that it is living.

The characteristics are the following:
  • Organized structures that are composed of heterogenous chemicals - in units of "cells"

    Metabolism: chemical and energy transformations

    Maintain internal conditions separated from an outside environment: homeostasis

    Growth: conversion of materials from the environment into components of organism

    Reaction to select stimuli, physiologically and/or behaviorally

    Reproduction: making copies of individuals via the mechanism of genetic transfer: sections of DNA molecules that contain instructions for organization & metabolism

    Evolution: change in characteristics of individuals, resulting from mutation & natural selection - these result in adaptations
Take them as you will.
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Post by mandustries » Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:57 pm

Alcyone wrote:Moving on to topic, we have a set way to determine life. If the object in question meets all of them, it can be safely concluded that it is living.

The characteristics are the following:
  • Organized structures that are composed of heterogenous chemicals - in units of "cells"

    Metabolism: chemical and energy transformations

    Maintain internal conditions separated from an outside environment: homeostasis

    Growth: conversion of materials from the environment into components of organism

    Reaction to select stimuli, physiologically and/or behaviorally

    Reproduction: making copies of individuals via the mechanism of genetic transfer: sections of DNA molecules that contain instructions for organization & metabolism

    Evolution: change in characteristics of individuals, resulting from mutation & natural selection - these result in adaptations
Take them as you will.
1. Check. Vampire bodies are still composed of chemical cells. They may not be living, changing cells, but they are cells nonetheless. No cells would mean no bodies.

2. Ch-eck? As some of the others posting in this thread have said, Vampires use the blood they drink to create energy. They burn the blood up, most likely in a metabolistic process, much like humans burn off calories.

3. Check, if we consider blood to be a material from the environment. (See 2.)

4. Double check. Edward fell in love with Bella, so he obviously reacts to behavioral (and, in the case of "I may be a vampire, but I'm also a man ... physical :twisted: ) stimuli.

5. Boo, no check. No little vampire babies running about. But, perhaps we can look at this in the sense that vampires reproduce through changing others into vampires? The newly changed are considered "newborn," after all ... Half-check?

6. Half-check. Edward evolves through his love for Bella, but doesn't really change in the sense that he doesn't age.

So, five out of six. That's not bad, right? :wink:
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