Are Vampires Dead?

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Post by Coolest~geek~ever » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:55 pm

They're only dead scientificlly; spiritually and emotionally they're alive.

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Post by December » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:15 pm

redheadedbella wrote:I really like thinking of the Cullens a living stone as you people above have said. While i don't know who actually said it-isn't it a pretty common thing to here "I think therefore i am." so wouldn't it be fair to say the Cullens are and thus they must be living???They are just immortal not dead and so they age different-as in they don't at all-i firmly believe that the Cullens are living though
It was the French philosopher Rene Descartes (1596-1650). (His most famous statement of this was in Latin (*grin*): cogito ergo sum). I take your thought, but I'm not sure you want to argue that if you are you must be alive.... Unless you take a very broad view of what it is to be living, one which encompasses rocks, puddles, sausage rolls, typewriter ribbons and everything else to be found in this universe!
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Post by catherine » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:26 pm

First off, the books never said the Cullens were made of stone, just that they felt like it.
Second, in my eyes there are two kinds of death: physical and spiritual. If you think about it, vampires are not dead in either way. They still have a spirit, or else they wouldn't be able to have thier own minds and opinions. They also have total control over thier bodies, meaning that it is still alive. I think that vampires are so much more alive than regular people. They have a mind and body, which is controlled by thier spirits, plus the fact that they can't die. What could be more alive than that?
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Post by TrueLove1 » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:32 pm

December Wrote:
I take your thought, but I'm not sure you want to argue that if you are you must be alive.... Unless you take a very broad view of what it is to be living, one which encompasses rocks, puddles, sausage rolls, typewriter ribbons and everything else to be found in this universe!

I just needed to quote the above because it made me laugh so hard. *grin*

Getting back to the discussion though....

It's interesting that I don't see Bella's dying for Edward in a concrete way--that I do believe that her choice of becoming a vampire is life too. But a different life, to be sure. One so very far and away from our human existence that it can't be taken lightly, by any means, but not so far away from the human existence that Stephenie ends her book with two dead teenagers--as Visitor would say. Bella will still exist in a tangible form with a soul. She will exist--if not within-certainly adjacent to the human world. Like Edward says, she will still be Bella. She will not be able to interact with her family for a long time, but technically she could. She can't have children but that is a situation that presents itself to many humans too.

She will exist as a sentient creature~a thinking being~whose origins are in humanity but are no longer completely human. A different life.
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Are Vampires Dead?

Post by dsolo » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:52 pm

re: the living stone argument - I believe that SM does refer to them as chrystalized, which is why their skin sparkles in the sun. That's not just skin like stone, that is stone. Also, in her extra "Being Jacob Black", he refers to the vampires as sharp angles and chrystalline (I think I'm remembering that correctly). That indicates that it is a metamorphasis into a different kind of lifeform. Love the "I think, therefore I am", of course, that indicates sentience, not life. On the other hand, I doubt you could be sentient without life. Ability to grow and change would be arguments for life - vampires just take longer to make a change. That makes sense because they never forget anything, so a change better be worth it. I don't think Bella's choosing death, just a different kind of life. Remember, Edward is important to her continued emotional wellbeing. Even Jacob was only able to dispel some of her unhappiness. Guess we'll have to wait until Aug 2 to see how SM sees it.

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Post by December » Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:18 pm

Ok. I really want to press all of you a little bit here. What about ghosts, angels, demons, spirits, shades, zombies, etc.? They all think and move and don't die a natural death (though they also CAN be destroyed).... Are these things alive also? Or is there some point in thinking that ghosts are dead? If so, what makes the Cullens different? To return to Bella's choice again, imagine for a moment that Edward were a ghost rather than a vampire. If Bella were to die -- in the ordinary way -- to be with him, knowing that she would still exist as a ghost, would we feel that she was still going to be alive? That this wasn't dying? I agree that becoming a vampire seems different, but why?
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Post by lovestolaugh » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:01 pm

it is very different for bella to "die" to become a ghost.

a ghost according to people's perspectives of them isn't really alive because they're not solid like vampires. vampires at least take on human form but ghosts are imprints of their past lives.

and when you become a vampire supposedly all your traits are enhanced, not diminished. (like ghosts)

but if bella were to die 2 become a ghost with edward, i would see it as a new life for her (a little strange but i guess its the same concept) even though she would die in the literal sense
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Post by wannaBcullengrl » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:19 pm

i don't think vampires are dead. so their hearts don't beat and they don't need to breathe but their mind still lives. i don't remember who it was but didnt some philospher say "i think therefore i am" or something like that?
any who, a vampires mind thinks and can grow. as obviously shown by how edward grows from bella's love. his mind learns and develops and grows.
his body may mot be able to grow but it functions. a vampire's body may not need a pulse or oxygen but it has its own needs. their bodys do require nutrition (blood instead of food) and they have the feeling of hungar (ok thirst but same idea).
vampires also move which is a rule of life. theis tendons and muscles work the same as humans more or less. their muscles are just stronger.
i agree with carlisle and edward. why couldn't a creator have made them as well as humans? they are humans that have been posioned. do we not have diseases where some one's mind never grows old or their body never develops like regular humans? they maybe a more extreme version of a dwarf but i kind of of think of them as a breed or race of human. like the x-men. still human but superior. then their inability to have children just makes them like the mule i guess of the homo sapiens. or perhaps sterilization just a side affect of the poison
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Post by projade » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:36 pm

I do not think that vampires are dead. The only think that makes us think they are dead is because their hearts no longer beat, but that is not the definition of living. Living is defined as having existence, and I think everyone can agree that vampires exist. It all is down to the fact of their hearts. I think of them as plants. Plants have no hearts or brains, but they are still considered living.

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Post by ihatethetalkof.forever » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:06 pm

They are dead in the means that they cannot grow old, their hair cant's grow nails (that outa stink!) etc. cannot grow. Their body cannot process food. (the blood is 'obsorbed' ) they are cold etc. I view it as when they were turned they died and since then they are in like suspended animation. 'suspended animation' that's what i think...
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