Are Vampires Dead?

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Post by malteselover » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:44 pm

Vampires are tricky. They are sort of caught between life and death. They can't grow/develope, or reproduce (which are necessary actions to be considered living. I guess reviewing for a biology final can be a good thing). So scientifically, they are dead. But vampires are still walking, talking, thinking, and associating with the living, so they are not what we consider dead (unless dead people normally drive volvos and sit in High School classes). It's a limbo, a third catagory of existence similar to that of ghosts (only they are not transparent).
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Post by xxSwitzerlandxx » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:49 pm

Though i pretty much agree with everything that has been stated before, i wanted to put forward a new, if you call it, "theory".

In my opinion, vampires (if compared to humans) are half-dead. But if you don't compare them to humans, if you just analyze them seperatly, they seem pretty much alive.

If you think of vampires as a seperate species from humans, then it's easier to visualize them as "alive".

But then again, i really do believe that the vampire state is more like a purgatory or limbo kind of thing. I think of it as if their souls were "frozen" ergo they'll whole existance is "frozen" till they finnaly leave this world (they "die").
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Post by blue2twilight » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:50 pm

They're half dead, if that even makes sense...
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Post by Jacob's_Wolf_Girl » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:50 pm

Lilybel wrote:I completely agree with you about the "in the name of love" message. I can't believe that a series that centers so much around the humanity of the main character would end up with her committing suicide! I don't trust Bella's reasons to become a vampire. I've said before that she isn't comfortable with herself around Edward and the Cullens, and it might be feeding her desire to be changed.
Yes. I honestly can't see Meyer writing her changing. I'm as curious as anyone to know what she would be like as a vampire. But for all intents and purposes, in my eyes, at least, she'd be dead. With everything that she has to sacrifice, with all the objections that Edward, himself, Jacob, and Rosalie have made against her becoming a vampire, with all of the insecurities she has about herself, with her addiction/love for Edward, with all of her concerns about growing old, with her concern and protectiveness for her family...I don't see Meyer changing Bella. (If you read The Host, By the way, she commentates a lot on humanity as well.) It's contradictory in so many ways.

Again, I think it all comes down on point of view. In the books, the vampires seem to think that it's a sort of life, a transformation while the werewolves believe that vampires are dead. Who is right? Who is wrong?

I do think the fact that Edward and Rosalie, vampires themselves, are so against it should count for something. (And Carlisle doesn't voice his opinions on the subject, so he's conflicted too...)
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Post by noarbee » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:51 pm

Well that entirely depends on what 'life' is. Physically, they are dead. Mentally they are still alive. Or perhaps they have just evolved into another human state (like a tadpole to a frog) that many people never experience. In Tuck Everlasting, Tuck describes his family as stones tossed off to the side of the wheel of life, they are not living, they just are. While not a perfect example, it certainly applies. But what exactly separates the werewolves from the vampires? Why are the vampires dead and the werewolves alive? Is it because werewolves don't always have to be wolves? or because werewolves are still 'human'. But living is more that just breathing and a beating heart. Living is having experiences, love being a main part, and if i were Bella, becoming a vampire would just be the beginning of life.
Last edited by noarbee on Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ashlee_cullen » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:55 pm

I don't think vampires are dead. I don't think that they are real, other than in the books :roll: But I think that they can walk around and talk and learn. They do still feed to survive, like humans, so why cant they be categorized as living. even if their eating habits are somewhat different than our own. They have emotions. They can feel warmth. All of those things are very much living traits to me.

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Post by MarieIsHere » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:59 pm

Okay, my point is a little random and different than those before me ... but I want to hurry and get it in before I head off to work.

Scientifically, something is alive if it can metabolize and function its own processes.

Thank being said, vampires are alive. Their bodies may have "frozen", but they aren't dead - just shifted to another MO. We, as humans, don't understand how this works like we do the norman human body (to a certain extent), so lack of understanding tends to bring on stereotypes (ahem, werewolves). Just because we don't understand, however, doesn't mean it is not there. Vampires must drink blood to stay alive and sane, so clearly there is some sort of process occuring to drive that craving and desire. Afterall, who - after eating food for 17 or so years - would randomly and voluntary stop eating food and start craving blood? Anyway, getting to my point, vampires are thus alive by some mysterious way.

Bella's choice to become a vampire, however, will be much more like death since she will obviously have to break ties with here friends and family in this current life that she knows. She won't grow, won't age physically, etc ... so the choice is like death because it means the death of one "life" or way of living, and the birth of another.
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Post by Sorcha » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:01 pm

To me what's interesting to think about is how humans can be alive, biologically speaking, but yet be dead in the sense that they've lost the will to live. No goals, no ambition, just floating through life. So in a way I still see vampires as being alive if they have goals and desires and they find meaning in that which surrounds them.
I'm also curious... if part of what makes us alive is the fact that are cells can divide and multiply to renew our skin, organs and so on... and obviously vampire cells do not simply die (because if so they would have no body), do they still multiply like human cells or are they frozen in time? Perhaps vampireism is actually the fountain of youth (with consequences)?
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are vampires dead

Post by iluvedwardthemostest » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:05 pm

i don't think vampires are dead techniquically speaking i mean they are living dead but i don't think that makes them dead dead.also i think they have souls and that their souls are still inside of them also makes them not dead. that doesn't really make sense but i hope you can figure it out.
Last edited by iluvedwardthemostest on Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Cherokee » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:05 pm

I actually discussed this very thing with my father today while at his house.

The fact that vampires don't have beating hearts seems to always be mentioned in every story I have heard involving them...

My father said today that in this series, so much about vampires is different (No fangs, they can come into the sunlight, etc...), why can't the heart beat?

He has not read the books recently, but I will directly quote his words (unless something needs to be censored, of course). Yes, I realize that this is not directly applying to this discussion at first, but it gets there.

"You were talking earlier about vampires being able to bake. In order for a man to bake he needs to have blood flow. If the blood that the vampires drink, whether human or otherwise, flows through their veins, it needs to have something to actually pump it through. It can't just happen. In other things I've read, TV shows or movies I've seen, not all of them, but some, when you turn into a vampire, you can hear, silently, and very slowly, not at all too often, another vampire's heart beating. The fact that Bella can't hear Edward's heart beating when she lays her head against his chest doesn't mean that it isn't beating...maybe it's just too low for her to hear, or maybe it doesn't beat as often as hers. As for whether or not it beats at all, I can't say, but it's a possibility."

Now, taking into account what my father said, and if it happens to be true, their hearts are beating...and to me, that means they are alive.

Like other things said here, it is not normal life...a cross between death and life...maybe a bit similar to Duncan in Highlander. He was immortal, not aging, but still alive.

Just because they do not age and their eating habits differ from ours means nothing to me: In my world, they are alive.

But this doesn't just apply to Steph's vampires, it applies to them

But of course, that's just my opinion. I try not to think about it too much, otherwise I get a headache...sort of like thinking about time travel.
Last edited by Cherokee on Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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