Breaking Dawn Theories

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Doxys
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Re: Respect

Post by Doxys »

Alice's Twin Sister wrote:And actually I think SonR is one of the much more respectful... have you read some of our other member's comments? There's two I can think of right off the top of my head who have been quite nasty to a few of us on other strings just for having an opinion, theory, or comment.


One thing that Urks me is when people come off trying to act like they are some sort of an authority on literature. There are two who are bashing SM and our beloved books left and right unchallenged on some of the other strings and no one seems to think anything of it. I tried to intervene and tell them to tone it down and all I got was nasty rudeness back and I was trying to be very nice about it.

Not that it is my place to do any policing but I want to enjoy what we do here and not be treated condescendingly about it. Not all of us are teenagers...some of us have some wisdom in years and we still enjoy these books as much if not more than some. :)


Thank you for share your opinion with me. I don't mention that SonR is disrespectfull towards everyone here. But I feel she is disrespectfull toward my person. One day she calls me vain and now she made fun about what I said. I never make fun towards her comments and I never call her other than her nick name. I think I can ask for the same courtesy. I think the only ones who are expert in literature are the ones who study that subject or the one who after reading a lot about the subject and hundreds books know how things work. I'm not considered myself an authority in literature but I'm not a completely ignorant about the subject. I start taken curses in literature but I'm going to start fully my Dr. Degree in Literature in one year. Also I think is well known that anything is possible in fantasy. As simple as that. I'm agreeing with you, is offensive when you hear negative comments about a series you love so much and about an author you admire. Also is frustrating when people said: "I'm going to burn the books if doesn't happen what I want". That takes credit for the author talent. I never think certain books have an age parameter. That's one of the attributes of Twilight Series: these books broke age barrier. Like Antoine de Saint-Exupéry said: "All grown-ups were once children--although few of them remember it." It is nice of you to try making an enjoyable place to talk about the series. That's the funny part of the fandom. And I know what you mean, I'm not a teenager either but in defense of teenagers (because I'm a teacher) mature doesn't come in certain age it's come when you want to left behind childless things and start acting like a grownup.


Peace
Doxys
Last edited by Doxys on Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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emilymichellecullen
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Post by emilymichellecullen »

i agree with you doxys on the maturity issue. Maturity comes to me through experiences and your own personal choices to grow up in a sense and to not tolerate derrogatory comments being made about others or yourself.
I personally am only a freshman in college but i have very mature friends and see older people (likemy 38 year old mother who is Renae in the flesh) who can seem very childish.
I guess i can relate to bella in the sense that i am middle-aged and seemed to skip my teenage years haha

Doxys
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Re: The Denali

Post by Doxys »

Alice's Twin Sister wrote:Oh nice twist! I like that one... that would definitely bring the Denali into the conflicts that be! We were speculating on a few different strings about the Denali and how they could be a aprt of the conflicts. Well that would certainly do it! Especially with Jacob running inteh northern provences of Canada. Who's to say he wouldn't run far north enough to run ito the Denali Coven? Nice one..I like that theory!



That will be cool. I don't know why but I think about that for a very long time. I think it will be interesting speculate about what Denali coven what for a possible exchange. Because is clear that the Denali aren't too happy with the wolf pack. I don't know why but at the moment they refuses to help the Cullens at that moment I believe that they are not so good friends. Because how you refuses to help one of yours.


Peace
Doxys
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hannahcupcakes
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Post by hannahcupcakes »

so here's my theory.
the volturi is going to crash the wedding and jacob will come back to help edward protect bella. jacob and edward realize they are madly in love in run into the forrest to have hot werewolf on vampire sex, never to be seen again...

haha don't hate me.
luckily, fanfiction isn't SM's style. i actually agree with the billy dying theory, but i'm going to stop guessing so it will be a complete surprise.

oh and who else is camping out at barnes and noble? i assume it's not just a california thing. i'm going with glitter and vegan cupcakes. the bay area is lucky ;)

NovaAlbion
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Re: poison

Post by NovaAlbion »

Alice's Twin Sister wrote:NovaAlbion.... but could we look at it from a poison point of view? Say instead of looking at it from a venom standpoint with anti-bodies. For example, a person who takes a small amount of poison over a long period of time and builds up a tolerance for it. Well I suppose immunity would into play again. But given the fact that Bella does Kiss Edward a lot and is actually exposed to his oral secretions then she would actually be given very small doses each time. Now I understand that it isn't entering her blood directly.

But understanding how oral/buccal medications work. She could absorb the venom into her oral mucosa thus it enters her bloodstream that way. It's just a thought however obscure it is.

I mean if we look at it from a strictly clinical standpoint then we have to assume she is actually being dosed in very minute amounts with each kissing exposure. So it could stand to reason she may actually be building a tolerance or even a small immunity to the venom. However, in a large dose exposure as in if she were intentioanlly bitten then she still may not be able to fight off the full effect of that much poison in her system even despite this.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO IMPLY THAT IT WAS THE ONLY WAY!

I don't think that I ever claimed that James' bite was the only way to build up immunity. I merely proposed that if Bella could not be turned, immunization was one potential mechanism for providing that result.

I had considered trace amounts making it through the skin and oral membranes, but I know that ongoing exposure to trace toxins, especially those not metabolized by the body, tend to build up to toxic levels. (Or in this case to a sufficient level to trigger the conversion process.) So, not being a biochemist, I shied away from that particular method, even though, for some toxins, it works. I like it.

Geek Alert

OH, OH. LOOK WHAT YOU DID (See below)

Now that you bring it up, there is another aspect that has two interesting points.

First, the vampire scent is obviously composed of the aromatic components of venom. Bella has been breathing fairly heavy concentrations of this stuff for a year and a half. Transportation through the lungs, directly into the blood stream is a distinct possibility. Talk about second-hand "smoke". ;)

Also, we probably can be pretty sure that the vampire scent/aromatic components of venom is/are also responsible for triggering the development/phasing of werewolves among the Quileutes. Hm, an extreme allergic reaction among a genetically sensitive population? 8)

THREE-PACK, SIX-PACK, TEN-PACK - TOO MANY WEREWOLVES!

If this is the case, it can explain several things. One, the large number of werewolves. The pack had never had more than three wolves at a time. Yet, in spite of strict territorial boundries, there are now ten werewolves. Sam, Jared and Paul are easily explained by their travels to and from and through Forks. Even if they did not come into direct contact with the Cullens, trace amounts of venom in the "contaminated" environment were apparently sufficient to trigger those "older" young men who by age and temperament were vulnerable to the change.

The younger boys didn't get a chance to cross over into "blood sucker" territory very often (they couldn't drive), so that would limit their exposure. So what changed the additional seven werewolves? Bella did.

HOW BELLA CREATED WEREWOLVES

If our theory is correct, Bella was, by what ever mechanism, building up levels venom, or at least its aromatic components, in her body. She also would exude trace amounts of venom through her skin, respiration and other bodily wastes.

This build-up, obviously started in Twilight. While it may have reached equilibrium under the conversion threshold, something that we still are not sure of, the build-up was rapid, especially with Bella spending a great deal of time with all of the Cullens in closed spaces (the car, hotel, hospital) and spending time with Edward kissing and breathing around him. It doesn't help that he spends all night, every night in her bedroom. She doesn't even get a chance to detoxify. And of course, Billy and Jacob (he was doomed) came to Bella's house, twice. Of course, Billy can smell vampire scent. But Billy and Jacob may have dragged enough contamination back to La Push to trigger Embry's change. (It may take months at these extremely small trace amounts. Or Bella could have just given him a big dose on her first motorcycle trip to La Push. Or both.)

By the time of her birthday (seven months, March 8 - September 13th 2005), Bella has built-up to near conversion levels of serum venom. Then the Cullens leave and she begins to gradually detoxify (four months, September 15, 2005 - January 17, 2006). While the venom levels have significantly dropped, she is still secreting significant, but apparently undetectable, levels of vampire venom. Then she goes to La Push.

"Hi, Jacob! Hi, Embry. Hi, Quil. Here is my gift to you. All you gotta do is breath." Embry almost immediately phases, misses a week of school and joins "La Push gang". He was seen cliff diving with the "gang". Jacob gets the highest dosage, but must have been really happy to be with Bella. He didn't phase until after the "Puking Mike" date on February 21st. Bella gives Quil a ride (March 10th). The next she hears of Quil (about May 25th), he has phased and imprinted on Claire.

Of course, we didn't see any Bella interaction with Collin, Brady, Seth, or Leah. But we know she was in La Push - a lot, and that she was all over town. We don't exactly know when Quil, or the others, phased. (We can be sure it was before June 3rd - Eclipse Legends bonfire where there was a full roster, even if Brady and Collin were not there.)

IT'S NOT MY FAULT - Han Solo

Now all of these werewolves may not have been strictly Bella's fault. Since it had been six months since her last exposure, Bella may have been nearly venom free. And there were other potential sources of contagion. Sam, Jared, Paul, Embry and Jacob fought Laurent and may have brought contamination back to La Push. The pack was trying to deal with Victoria. Alice returned and was at the Swan home when Jacob brought Bella home from "cliff diving". And of course, the Cullens returned and Jacob had some degree of interaction with them.

But I'm betting on Bella. Danger Magnet. Only she could make her own enemies. And in such alarming quantities.

End Geek Alert

So yes, you have proposed a valid alternate immunization theory. And triggered some potentially sound speculation as to the problem of too many werewolves. What do you think?
Last edited by NovaAlbion on Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
" ... I sometimes think I'm not writing novels, I'm writing Rorschach tests."
David Gerrold, fantasy and science fiction novelist and screenwriter

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4332809/1/Out_Of_The_Blue
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4239728/1/Shirley_The_Vampire_Slayer

NovaAlbion
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Post by NovaAlbion »

emilymichellecullen wrote:The venom in the vampires is so strange though, i don't think you could build antibodies for something like that. Maybe it could take quite a bit of venom to change her, but since he's probobly going to bite closer to her heart to speed the process up, i doubt her antibodies could react quickly enough.
The immunization theory is that James' bite or long-term low dosage exposure via Edward (Alice's Twin Sister) has already generated sufficient anti-bodies to prevent conversion.

These theories were not proposed because we thought that they were likely to happen. Instead we asked ourselves, "If Bella cannot be changed into a vampire, what mechanism, other that 'It's magic!' might explain the failure to convert?"

Yes, one assumes that if Edward pumped her full of venom, it would overwhelm whatever defenses Bella's body might have developed. But does the boy have enough juice? ;)
" ... I sometimes think I'm not writing novels, I'm writing Rorschach tests."
David Gerrold, fantasy and science fiction novelist and screenwriter

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4332809/1/Out_Of_The_Blue
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4239728/1/Shirley_The_Vampire_Slayer

Cullen_family
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Post by Cullen_family »

I read most of the theories and they helped me compile my own. Let me know if you think I'm way off here.

Because someone mentioned the preface, I read it. It really caught my attention so I read it again and again and again. It seemed to be offering up just a little clue about the book and I think it's something like this...just my theory.

I think that the climax will be the Volturi kidnapping Edward (he will be tortured by Alec I think). There will be two reasons behind this. #1 They think the Cullen family is growing too large and with the introduction of Bella they will be even more powerful (or so they think because they believe she will have super powers). I also remember in NM Aro saying that one day Edward and Alice would join them. In Eclipse, Edward knows that they were coming to "clean up" and use that as an excuse to take out some Cullens. They weren't going to make it seem as if they were out right gunning for them but he knows they will eventually. #2 They will force Edward's hand. Bella will have to go save him (again) by giving up her life to him. I think they will accept Edward's deal and allow him to change her, I don't know what his stipulations would be. He will reluctantly agree because he would rather it be him than one of those other monsters. The Cullens will have to get together with the werewolves again for help and take out the Volturi. This time Bella will be an asset to them instead of a burden because her ability. Her gift will be to remain a more human vampire. Meaning that she will be able to use her ability to hide inside of her mind to avoid the thirst for blood and to have more compassion therefore not wanting to kill for killing's sake. So she will fight along side them and they will win putting an end to the Volturi and the Cullens will take over as the vampire royal family. That leaves Forks vampire free and the wolves will eventually get to stop being wolves and Jake's happy ending will be that he can live as a human again. That will be Bella's gift to him.

So... is it awful?

Alice's Twin Sister
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Re: Respect

Post by Alice's Twin Sister »

[quote="Doxys[/quote]
Thank you for share your opinion with me. I don't mention that SonR is disrespectfull towards everyone here. But I feel she is disrespectfull toward my person. One day she calls me vain and now she made fun about what I said. I never make fun towards her comments and I never call her other than her nick name. I think I can ask for the same courtesy. I think the only ones who are expert in literature are the ones who study that subject or the one who after reading a lot about the subject and hundreds books know how things work. I'm not considered myself an authority in literature but I'm not a completely ignorant about the subject. I start taken curses in literature but I'm going to start fully my Dr. Degree in Literature in one year. Also I think is well known that anything is possible in fantasy. As simple as that. I'm agreeing with you, is offensive when you hear negative comments about a series you love so much and about an author you admire. Also is frustrating when people said: "I'm going to burn the books if doesn't happen what I want". That takes credit for the author talent. I never think certain books have an age parameter. That's one of the attributes of Twilight Series: these books broke age barrier. Like Antoine de Saint-Exupéry said: "All grown-ups were once children--although few of them remember it." It is nice of you to try making an enjoyable place to talk about the series. That's the funny part of the fandom. And I know what you mean, I'm not a teenager either but in defense of teenagers (because I'm a teacher) mature doesn't come in certain age it's come when you want to left behind childless things and start acting like a grownup.


Peace
Doxys
[/quote]

Oh I have no problem with teens.... I remember those years all too well and in my particular profession (I'm a NICU nurse on an Army Post), I see the less than wonderful side of being a new mother..those who weren't ready, those who were just too young, those all alone with young husbands just 18 or 19 themselves over in iraq and afghanistan. Those who need a friend in a desperate time in their lives. So if at the very least I can relate with most.

I'm no pro at literature. Admittedly I don't read much. Frank Herbert's Dune and what his son Brian Herbert has written since in prequels has been a challenge for me which I enjoyed. Read the HP series and ate that up alive but took me a long time to read some of those books more so than others in the series. I read slower and my comprehension is a little slower so reading was never my strong point and I get a little sensitive when someone berates something I have only recently been very proud of accomplishing like reading something and actually enjoying it like the Twilight Saga!

For me to read a book for enjoyment yet alone an entire series over and over again is rather miraculous. My husband thinks I am insane! He's very happy I am reading, but he thinks now I have gone overboard! hahaha

Believe me, I'm not attacking you in any way at all.... Actually was wondering where you were for a few days there. But there are two folks on some of the other strings in the Quench Your Thirst Forum who have been quite nasty to people, me included. If you go over there and read some of the posts you'll probably get the gist of whom i mean.

congrats on having only one more year to go for your Doctoral degree in literature. What will you be writing your thesis on?

I would never burn a book! Even if I didn't like it. It's like enfringing on someone's freedom of speech. And I wouldn't want to violate that freedom. Burning a book is like burning the flag. It is the worst possible kind of disrespect for freedom that is possible.

I think identify a lot with Bella...where I was mature beyond my years at a young age.... I still remember a school counselor in elemenatary school being impressed with how I handled bad events...that was an impression made on me that never left me. I still remember his name and one other teacher I had who believed in me when no one else did. But I still feel like I am young at heart and that this book series re-awoke that inner child not only in me but in two other of my work friends who've all become really good friends as a result outside of work! My hubby is happy about that too. though the Cell phone texting is getting abnoxious according to him! hahaha

So with our inner child being re-awoken, 9 of us from work are going to the Barnes and Noble Prom themed book premier all dressed up as if we were going to a real prom! We're all really excited about it...you'd think we were 18 all over again! Wish we could get a limo that would be hilarious!
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Alice and Rosalie Rock!

marissa
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Post by marissa »

Okay, let's assume for a moment that Doxys is right with the statement that Stephenie Meyer never definatively said "yes" or No" to whether vampires could become human again (which, after reviewing the personal correspondance, I tend to agree with Doxys's belief that you can't use those statements for proof as to whether Edward could become a human)

However, after thinking about if for a long time, I don't think that Edward could become a human again for several reasons.

1) Their hearts have stopped beating, they have no body fluids, and they are, in essence, dead. They have completely changed from their original human form, so I don't know how they could get the rest of their organs to start working again. Even if you could change them back, their body has been "disfunctioning" for so long, they would most likely be dead.
2) Edward doesn't believe he has a soul, and that he can't go to heaven. If you are religious, the thought of not moving on to some sort of afterlife could be extremely frightening. The Cullens also have unlimited resources, and a surplus of time on their hands. Don't you think that if their was a way to change back, they would have already? Carlile went crazy, trying to deny who he was for a LONG time after he changed. Don't you think he at the very least would have looked into every possible way to try to change back? Or Edward, too? Don't you think he would have looked into it already?
3)I don't know if you read "The Host" *****SPOILERS SPOIOLERS SPOILERS DO NOT READ IF YOU HAVEN"T READ THE HOST YET**** but in it, Wanderer ends up telling the humans how they can remove the souls, thus returning Melanie to her original form (similar to a vampire getting their original human form back). So Stephenie's kind of already used that plot, or at least a very similar one, at the very least. Not that I would be opposed to using a similar plot again, or that she wouldn't because I'm not SM, I'm just saying that it decreases the likelyhood of it happening again.

This is just my opinion though, I could be completely off :wink: Kind of off the current topic, but I was looking at some of the earlier posts, and I just thought I'd throw in my two cents on the subject

SonR
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Post by SonR »

In the personal correspondence section, SM says that Bella does not ingest venom when she kisses Edward. He is very careful about closed mouth kissing. also we can not assume that ingesting venom would transit in into the blood stream, it could be broken down by stomach acid. and then enter the insestines as something that is not venom.

in terms of vampires being more science than magic...i think that the venom acts like a paracite slowing converting the body into a few form. like radiation it permently changes the human DNA. the heat generated by the venom reminds me of the extreme heat and pressue use to manufacture diamonds, like wise you can't change a cubic-zarconia back into coal. or plaster of pairs when it is heated to a temp of more than 1000 degrees, the carbon in the calcium carbonate, starts to crystalize into quartz, thus destroying the structual intergrity of the plaster. ( i actaully have a lot of experience with this, i worked in the foundry for 3 years.)

and you can't change oil depsoits back into dinosaurs.

Whale like all manauls evolved from the same common ansester that came on to land some 300,000,000 years ago. fish stayed in the water, they have not changed as much in that time. some mammals have gone back into the water, like whales, but they can never been fish again, they are warm blooded, have to surface to breath (they left gills behind on the trek to land), they birth live young. they still have femurs and all the other leg bones.

scientifically thinking you can't evolve back into a past lifeform.

ps: Doxys - i never called you vain, please stop accusing me of that which i have not said.
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