Breaking Dawn Theories

Discussion area for all things Breaking Dawn
Doxys
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Post by Doxys » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:31 pm

littlemrscullen wrote:
Maggie_CM wrote:She do?
:shock:

T.T Ohhhhh I dont now that..
Let me see if I can find the quote...



The quote is in Twilight Lexicon Personal Correspondence #12. But the explication Stephanie Meyer give it was from the POV of Edward (I think) she was trying to explain what Edward believe about his soul and "after live". Because when she finishes the sentence it's with this line: "What does he base this belief on?" Maybe we have an answer for the POV of what Edwards believe or maybe she really said that vampire can't be mortals again. If there is something that authors are magnificent working with is word gaming. So will see but I believe in literature there always exceptions to the rules.

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ktripper
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Post by ktripper » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:07 pm

McKay wrote:Okay, what if we get an Harry Potter-ish epilouge?!! Like Bella is changed and its 30 or 50 years later and she goes to visit Jacob (whether she is making her presence known or being like Edward in Twilight when he visits her while she's sleeping.) And she sees Jacob in bed with a lady next to him, and then she hears a baby crying in the next room. Then Jacob wakes up and says "Hello?" or "Bella?" and then she runs away (invisibly of course) and it goes into a whole monolouge about her feelings and then the book ends. :shock:
Hey I totally agree although I think it will be more of a closure than for just a visit if you know what I mean. I love the idea of an epilogue though.

NovaAlbion
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Post by NovaAlbion » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:13 pm

Leijah wrote:
NovaAlbion wrote: Fire References excluded from consideration:
- La Push Bonfires (First Beach - Twilight, Bonfire celebrating Cullens' departure - New Moon, Bonfire with legends - Eclipse)
t
While I enjoyed the read, I want to point on that there was no reason for you to exclude these fire references. If you noticed all these times, fire is used around werewolves. (Even on first beach, Sam is there with Jacob and one can assume that he's already a werewolf by that point in time). Therefore, its safe to assume that werewolves perhaps know that fire is dangerous for vampires. And being that two are immortal enemies, the werewolves choice to use fire to keep vampire away from gathering or people that could be in danger from them. Also the celebrating departure becomes even more symbolic , its not that they just aren't having a party, they celebrating victory with one the vampires greatest fear. It makes it even more triumphed in a sense and a sign to Cullen's not to return. I think that it is strange with all your detail analyze, you did not realize this possibility.
Well, I have to admit that this is a clever idea (fire being a werewolf weapon against vampires) and that it didn't occur to me. So let's think about it a bit.

First, the bonfires fall well within standard human, i.e. non-werewolf, uses for gathering and celebration. How many backyard get-togethers and family reunions at parks are centered around the barbeque/firepit, where people talk about family stories, personal tales and horsing around (both physical and verbal). Depending on the situation, some courting, some business, some friendly competition may take place. Maybe even some "scary" stories. It probably looked so normal, so human that I didn't read any special or extra werewolfishness into the scene. Perhaps because it wasn't there.

Note: As fans participating in a discussion group, we are always over analyzing everything. We have to be careful that when the author calls a spade a spade that we don't read "racial slur" when she is talking about a shovel. If you think I'm not vulnerable to this charge ... well, I think my post illustrates the degree of MY obsession.

The second aspect is that I think that fire makes a very poor weapon for werewolves. As werewolves they can't carry open flame. Can you visualize them running through the forest carrying a burning brand in their mouths? It might be possible for a short distance, but, for moderate-to-long distances, can you say werewolf flambe? ;)

Even in their human form, fire would be ineffective. Yes, in human form, members of the pack are hot, huge, strong, and very fast. Still, they are limited by their human bodies to the capabilities of those bodies. While they may be at the upper end of the bell curve, they are still on the human scale. Were I a vampire facing a werewolf (or werewolves) in human form, waving a burning brand at me, I would:
- Reach down, pick up my butt and reattach it, because I had obviously just laughed it off.
- Pick up a rock and throw it at the werewolf's head at about 600 miles an hour, from close range.
- I would then stamp out the torch that was lying next to the body.

Thirdly, there was no indication in the text that the werewolves had any knowledge fire as a weapon against "living" vampires. It is mentioned in none of the legends/teaching tales that we have heard. Yes, it is possible that this knowledge is had by the pack, but not yet revealed to Bella. But, currently, we don't know.

Are there scenarios where werewolves (or mere humans) could effectively use fire as a weapon against vampires? Probably. During a severe drought, the pack could surround the Cullen house one night (Alice couldn't see them - or members of her family after the "attack") and set the forest, ferns and all the trees ablaze. I still think that the Cullens would get out. It isn't like they were asleep and didn't wake up until the fire was well established, had them surrounded and was sweeping over them.

Part of it depends on how much effort it takes to ignite a living vampire. I mean if all you had to do was fl.ick-your-Bic, there would be no more vampires. (Natural selection at its finest.) On the other hand, if you had to hold the open flame against one spot of vampire flesh for as little as 2 seconds, I suspect that this would be plenty of time for the vampire to extinguish the flame as well as young Prometheus.

I was thinking more in terms of a very large Molotov co.cktail dropped on the vampire's head from a hiding place. (Instant engulfment - but if he/she heard it being released/falling they could out run the splash radius.) As far as the person who dropped the incendiary, irritable grizzlies probably won't cover it. ;)

Actually, I was thinking more of a WWII or Korean war vintage flame thrower. Since it uses napalm, it is sticky. It covers a wide area and can be sprayed over an arc. Especially with two or more weapons, you can generate interlocking fields of fire and provide mutual support. Usually, my bet would still be on the vampire.

While you have had some excellent ideas, however I am unconvinced that the werewolf bonfires have meaning in the context of fire's role in Breaking Dawn. I believe that I was right in excluding those particular fire reference from my discussion.
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panic!
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Post by panic! » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:27 pm

Whoa that would be awesome if it does have a Harry Potter ending! 100 years later: Bella finally thanks Alice for having a wedding. they move back to forks and see that jacob is alive and on his deathbed and she says goodbye. something like that would be kind of sweet and sad i guess
panic!

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Post by edward_cullen1900 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:50 pm

It wasn't the Volturi...it was the middle of the day.
"you've forgotten the most important comparison. it's beautiful" ~Eclipse

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Doxys
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Post by Doxys » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:50 pm

panic! wrote:Whoa that would be awesome if it does have a Harry Potter ending! 100 years later: Bella finally thanks Alice for having a wedding. they move back to forks and see that jacob is alive and on his deathbed and she says goodbye. something like that would be kind of sweet and sad i guess



The lovely thing about the ending of Harry Potter Series it was that the final was real. Harry was in a place that he always wanted to be. He chose mortality and life; he chooses not to be like Voldemort. He grown up, he learns about his journey and appreciated everything in a different perspective. For example forgive Snape and admire everything good he does for him. He was with his wife, her sons and his friend's sons. In Harry Potter epilogue we saw how life continues and how wonderful is. In Twilight Series we can never dream about an epilogue like that. Because vampires don't live a life they live an existence. They can never have sons or reunited with their friends because after 100 years everything they know or love except for themselves is gone.


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Idea.....

Post by LLO92690 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:28 am

I have a crazy idea! what if, and i know this sounds wierd, but what if bella doesnt get turned? what if carlisle or another new character that wont be revealed until breaking dawn offers a method where Edward can turn human...it might b impossible tho
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Post by SonR » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:48 am

I really don't think that a vampire can become human

i like all the well written and thought out theories.

about the Title, Dawn being the time the sun comes back. Forver Dawn about about Bella and Edward- before SM had any of he plots involving Jacob (the sun). i think she chose this title as a way of showing that time is stopped. like the riddle of thensphinx from Oedipus - the different times of day correspond ot the phases of a mans life.
but the title we have is Breaking Dawn. but i still think some of the same symbolism applies. she had the other title and just tweeked it a bit.

also about the passing of the book. it is my opinion the Preface refers to Bella being changed by Edward, and it's metophorical death. usually the preface is at the climax of the book. however, i want to have more of Bella's life as a vampire in the book, and i noticed that this is the only time that the preface has been released with the special edition. and it isn't a very goog marketing to release a scene from the climax of the story 2 monthes before it is released. I think we might have a 2 segment story
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Doxys
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Post by Doxys » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:07 am

SonR wrote:I really don't think that a vampire can become human

i like all the well written and thought out theories.

about the Title, Dawn being the time the sun comes back. Forver Dawn about about Bella and Edward- before SM had any of he plots involving Jacob (the sun). i think she chose this title as a way of showing that time is stopped. like the riddle of thensphinx from Oedipus - the different times of day correspond ot the phases of a mans life.
but the title we have is Breaking Dawn. but i still think some of the same symbolism applies. she had the other title and just tweeked it a bit.

also about the passing of the book. it is my opinion the Preface refers to Bella being changed by Edward, and it's metophorical death. usually the preface is at the climax of the book. however, i want to have more of Bella's life as a vampire in the book, and i noticed that this is the only time that the preface has been released with the special edition. and it isn't a very goog marketing to release a scene from the climax of the story 2 monthes before it is released. I think we might have a 2 segment story

I know the majority of the fandom doesn't like to think about the possibility of Edward becoming human again. The X factor ' sometimes in literature is introduces late in series to resolve some major problem. In literature that factor it's called: "deus ex machine". I hope something like that happened because I don't like the idea of Bella vampire for so many reasons mention before. I was reading New Moon again and I find something one of the Voltury said very weird and very interesting:



Quote


"' but when they are no longer USEFUL to us, they will serve to sustain us."



New Moon / page 478




What "use" can a simple mortal have to a vampire apart to be his food? These vampires are immortals, with super powers and super strength. What is the "USEFUL " thing?



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SonR
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Post by SonR » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:15 am

the Volturi have finacial concerns. that is where they use humans, to take care of business deal. they must have a fronting businesses or hedge funds. i've given this alot of thought. they can't send people who don't age to business meetings. Giana was the receptionist in there main building, we don't know what the building was supposed to be to the outside world. but they own most of the city, they have to rent out their realestate holding, deal with the city government, etc. they even said they use humans to keep of their "charade". the Volturi could not exist in their current state, as puppet masters of the city, without the help of humans as more than their food source.
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