Chapter Nineteen: Selfish

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
Alphie
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Chapter Nineteen: Selfish

Post by Alphie »

Many thanks to December for her help with this chapter!

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?

2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?

3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?

4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?
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Post by ouisa »

Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?

Of course it is! Absolutely. She is asking him to not put himself at risk, to save her life and that of all of her friends and family because she can't bear to be without him. She's risking the lives of everyone because she can't bear to be without him. The problem comes in when we then judge this selfishness to be "bad." The interesting questions are Is it wrong for Bella to be selfish? Probably. Do we understand why she did it and would we do it to? Probably yes to that too.

2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?

Perhaps he is seeing all the times Jake has been torturing him with visions of the suffering Bella. Perhaps he is struggling with his own selfishness on the many levels that it exists. (and yes Edward too is selfish). He wants to fight, he wants to protect his girl, he wants to indulge himself in his anger like he doesn't get to very often. But he then has to reconcile himself to a deeper fight, another way (an new way) of protecting his girl. It must be quite a dilemma for the dear boy. And perhaps one of the first inklings we get of the new improved evolved Edward we see in Eclipse, culminating in the deeper sacrifices he makes in the meadow at the end of the book.


3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?

Well, I always thought they were lying.


4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?

Because in wolf form he's silent? No seriously, in wolf form Jake is just present. There is no conversations, no pleading, or scheming. It is just the two of them curled up warm and companionable. I also do think that life is a bit simpler, more instinctual when in wolf form. Less thinking, more just being. [/i]
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Post by SparklePixie »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?
I think that it was because what person wouldn't want the love of their life fighting to keep them alive? I think that if it came to the point where the others really needed Edward I think she would have changed her point of view on him sitting out. I say that because I don't think she would want to lose any member of the Cullen family.


2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?

Probably thinking about how he really wanted to be fighting but had he not left her before she probably wouldn't be asking him to sit out now. I think he really blames himself for this fear she has of losing him again. That is why I think he probably was willing to agree not to go into battle. He knows he screwed up by leaving her and if he can read both Jake and Alice's thoughts then I am sure he has experienced and knows the torture she went through during the months that he was away. To prevent her from experiencing that kind of pain I think he would just do about anything, including sitting out.

3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?

I think to some degree they were just trying to keep Bella in the dark so she didn't freak out. That wouldn't help them to worry about her and the newborns. Besides I was better that the Cullens could handle themselves without Edward because of Jasper and Emmett.

4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?

When he is in wolf form there is nor arguing, no fussing, no hurt feelings. They can just sit around and be at peace. Jake doesn't have a chance to make her feel guilty or to act in a rude manner that will irritate Bella.
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Post by Twilight_Lover_91387 »

1. In a way... On one hand, the family and the werewolves will be in more danger, but Bella would definitely be safe. That's what Edward cares about the most.

2. I think that it was desperation, or what ever the look in her eyes were during the time they were apart. I think that he was thinking about that time.

3. I think that they think that it is going to be easy, but you never know...

4. Because he really can't act the way that he does when he is human. He can't be bitter in the same way, etc.

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Post by dazzled&breathless »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?
A little, she knows that taking one of them out makes it harder for the rest of them to handle the fight, but she really couldn't risk losing Edward again. She gets worried when he goes home for a couple of hours.
2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?
Most likely he is worried and thinking about his family, could he really chose Bella over his family when if he sits out it makes it harder for them to fight the newborns. He is deciding what he should do.
3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?
Mostly they say it to make Bella feel better. They know what the werewolves can do but they are slightly worried that one newborn could slip through and cause some trouble.
4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?
Jake feels like he doesn't have all the responsibilities he does when he is human. Perhaps because as a werewolf he here's the other's thoughts so he knows that he has help if he needs it. As a human he has to figure things out on his own and protect himself. Also, Bella maybe likes him as a wolf because she feels safer with him like that. She has seen the wolves chase down Laurent, she feels protected with him in that form, more so than when he is human. When he is human he pushes her away and sends her weird signals.
Staring into his eyes always made me feel extraordinary-- sort of like my bones were turning spongy. I was also a little lightheaded, but that could have been because I'd forgotten to keep breathing. Again.

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chapter discussion

Post by spiker21 »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?
In some aspects it is selfish but if it was me i would have done the same thing because bella has this urge to have him beside her and the battle just makes it worse for her considering what happened to her in the second book and just the thought of him being in danger reminds her of how her life was a couple of months ago.
2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?
The first thought that goes throught my mind is that he can see right through her and he knows that bella is just being overprotected and i thought that the emotion would be one of annoyance at the fact that he has tried to tell bella that everything will be ok but she won't understand and i think that it was also hinted with guilt at the fact that he did leave ans that part of her uneasiness is due to his actions of leaving.
3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?
I really believe that they are just trying to make bella feel better and if i were them i would be a little uneasy at the fact that twenty or so vampires are coming for us and are potentially stronger than our strongest person (emmett) but i would feel like it would be a piece of cake i would just be nervous.
4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?
Well when jacob is in wolf form he basically is just a really big dog and well puppies are naturally crazy and always happy and cheerfull and i feel that bella thinks that jacob is a big dog that she can play with because he is so happy all that time and when he is in human form he usually has a scowl on his face and in wolf form he has a "wolfy grin"
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question 4

Post by LLO92690 »

i think its because he does not have to hide who he is...he just has to be himself and the obstacle of bella judging him and thinking of him as an animal has been overcome. He realized that she has accepted him. Plus, at that point, there is nothing that edward can do about it and there is nothing that the pack can really do when bella is right there and she knows everything about both sides...neither side has to hide from her.
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Post by It_is_a_NewMoon »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?

*sigh* In some ways, and in others it is perfectly reasonable. It's hard to decide...

2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?

I have no idea. :o I never thought much of it.

3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?

A bit of both. 8)

4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?

Coz he can't talk! lol jk Well, partly. Isn't it that your personality is what makes your wolf? So, he's just normal, nice Jacob in wolf form. No, "SAM" mask.
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Post by Searching For Topaz Eyes »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?

I thought that was extremely selfish. I couldn't believe Bella would ask that of Edward. I remember being so angry at her until the very end of the book. Choosing between her and his family was obviously painful for Edward and Bella should have dropped the subject putting the Cullens before her need to know how Edward is. It also angered me that Bella always claims that the Cullens are her family, but then she puts them into danger by taking away one of their members during a huge battle. Selfish? Extremely. But do I understand why she did it? Of course. Would I have done it? Never

2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?

I think a million things were flashing through his mind. The memories he has seen of Bella after he left. Senarios of his family in battle without him. Somebody getting hurt. How he really wanted to fight. To let loose like he hasn't been able to since Bella came into his life. He thought by fighting he was protecting Bella, but now there is another thing she needs to be protected from, but protecting her from that means leaving his family to fend for themselves. Ect. Ect. Very painful thoughts. Poor Edward. But in the end he loves Bella so much he could never put her in a situatioin where she would feel that pain again.

3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?


I was never sure. I'd like to think they really believed that just for my own comfort, but I was never sure.

4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?

Because in wolf form Jacob isn't pressuring her to choose him. He isn't talking bad about Edward and the Cullens. He is just the old Jacob, pre-wolf, in his wolf form he is who he really is on the inside. And thats what Bella missed.
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Post by free-your-mind-dreamer »

1. Is it selfish of Bella to ask Edward to sit out the battle, knowing that it will increase the danger to the rest of his family?
It is so selfish !!! I was pretty upset about that but then I thought that I would probably have done the same thing, keep him safe, keep him with me..

2. When Bella asks Edward to sit out the battle for her, he looks into her eyes for a long time. She sees his eyes "tighten with some emotion I couldn't read" before he picks up the phone to call Alice and make the necessary arrangements. What do you think was going through his mind?
I think he was thinking about all the images of Bella when he left, the ones in Jacob's mind, Sam's mind, Charlie's mind, and he was thinking about how he had put the one he loved through that much pain, could he really do it to her again?

3. Do Edward and Alice really believe the danger from the newborns is as trivial as they say, or are they trying to make Bella feel better?
I'm torn, personally I always thought they were lying to her but when I think about Jasper's lessons maybe it really was that easy for them.

4. Why do you think Bella feels it's more like being with the old Jake -- "easy, effortless, as natural as breathing in and out" -- when he is in wolf form?
Jake in wolf form means no complications, Bella doesn't have to think about Edward, the Cullens, the pack, Jacob's love for her, nada. There's just a silence between them and its comfortable so that she doesn't have to even think about what it really means.
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