Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
NuevaLuna
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Post by NuevaLuna »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

i think they were both some of both. I do believe it was destiny, but like other have said, they had a choice. Because isn't that the message that Stephenie always keeps coming back to in her books? That everyone has a choice, and i love how she pair it up with destiny, so that they go hand in hand. Im a strong believer in destiny, but that you have a choice. which is part of why i love these books so freaking much!! <3

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No i do not think that it is weird, or odd. I mean this is how he "grew up" as a vampire, and so i think its natural to have some kind of reverence to it. Kind of like childhood, or not even that, but how some one is brought up affect people as a whole. i mean don't get me wrong, some peoples childhood are not memories that they want to remember. But it almost has an essence of happiness and freedom. Of not having a care in the world. Of laughing till you cry. Of innocence. Its his childhood in a way. So i think thats why he looks at it like that.


3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

With great power comes great resposibility. Cheesy but true. People with more power and with more influence to society, or just influence on lots of people are looked up to, for guidance for support for leadership. Sometimes they have to make decisions for others than themselves because their decisions affect more people.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

Personally i don't think there really is a lot to say. Carlisle wants to live in peace with the warewolves and when the time calls to bond together to fight a common enemy, they get together and fight it. The Denali clan has lived with Carlisle without any akward "were going to kill you if you mess up" kind of atmosphere lol. So i think the relationship is different. Also they are both vampires so theres also that that they have in commmon.

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Post by dazzled&breathless »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Wow, hard question. Each has a part of both choice and destiny. Because Alice always saw them together it probably played a bigger part than choice, but Jasper did have the choice not to go with Alice when she found him. Also Alice had the choice to not go searching for Jasper if she didn't want to, so her choice set in motion the future. Bella and Edward's love was controlled a lot more by choice. They chose to interact and be interested in eachother, but I guess it was destiny that Bella's blood would smell so good to Edward.
2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
Not really, the Volturi are the rulers of a world that Jasper grew up in, so they could have killed him at any point while he was involved in the vampire wars.
3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
Occasionally yes. The vampires could have easily wiped out not only the human race but also the vampires, so by destroying problematic areas the Volturi prevented this.
4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
Hmm, Carlisle is close to the Denali clan so he doesn't want to upset them but because Bella is worried about the wolves he acts upon that. Also, Carlisle isn't going to let the werewolves be killed because Irina made a choice to hold the wolves responsible for killing Laurent. Yeah she is mad he is dead, but really he would have died somehow because of his interactions with James and Victoria. Bella is part of the Cullens so her tie to the wolves is more important than the relationship with Tanya's family at this point.
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It_is_a_NewMoon
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Post by It_is_a_NewMoon »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

I never thought of it like that, just different people with different reactions to each other. But that works too. lol

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

No, he was a soldier, the Volturi guard are the ultimate vampire army. It's not odd.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

Yep, that's how it goes in most situations. lol

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

I'm glad he has more loyalty to the wolves, if the Denali clan came down they'd surely do some damage which would upset Bella, who would cry on Edward which would make him feel like rubbish.
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CatsOnMars
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Re: Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Post by CatsOnMars »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Alice's visions are not of destiny. They can change. She could have chosen not to find Jasper but they did choose to be with each other. I think they would have met even if she didn't have her visions, but knowing that would happen simply gave her hope and her life some direction and meaning after she woke up alone.
There almost seems to be some kind of destiny working around Edward and Bella finding each other. But I think anyone in their positions still has the choice of accepting fate or trying to fight it.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No, considering his background. I can see how a vampire like him would respect what they do in stopping chaos between covens.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
Yes...sometimes. But you can also go too far. I think I agree with a quote from Battlestar Galactica about this: "It is not enough to do whatever it takes to survive. You have to be worth surviving." I don't think I could ever be in a position to make those kind of decisions, though. I'm too much of an idealist to ever do something that's against my principles.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
I think his reaction to Tanya's refusal to help them is really interesting. I have a feeling Carlisle could have an unusual amount of sympathy for werewolves for a vampire. He's just not a violent or hateful person and he must have really wanted to have peace with the wolves if he went to the trouble of trying to get them to trust him and make the treaty with them. Laurent was dangerous and I don't think there's any way he's going to mess that up because Irina has it in for the wolf pack for killing him.
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Post by HeavenlyAngel14 »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

Well i think Alice and jasper were destined to be together as she saw them together when none of them had chosen it, but it does have elements of choice in it. I think bella and edward are the opposite, i think they were not destined to be together as they are two different species but thier choices brought them together. However i also think you make your own destiny so in a way they are both destined.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

no i don't really. I know bella is suprised at how he talks gooodly about them but they really are nessecary. The volturi do what they have to do to keep the vampires under cover. Without them the world with be in chaos. They may not do that job in the most nice way but they aren't evil really. I think Bella needs to realise that they do a incredibly hard job really well and for that they should be respected. jasper also probably fears them a bit too as they held a big threat to southern covens.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

Yes thats true. Aro makes what would sometime seem ruthless decisions but in his situation you can't really have one rule for one person and one for another. And thats just life really, thats the way it goes.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

Well Carlisle being the compassionate person he is would want to keep loyalty on both sides. i think he feels that he owes the wolves for saving bella and would not go back on the treaty. Also he make think that attacking the wolves would be dangerous for the cullens too as the wolves would probably think they were involved.

Since Carlisle and the denali clan are like extended family i think he would have more loyalty to them if it actually came to a fight but he will try as hard as he can to keep peace on both sides first.


Sorry about the rambling! this is my favourite chapter because jasper is my favourite. I love his story best, its so cute the way alice and him meet. Its also sad though. not sure if its sadder than rosalie's though. :?:

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Post by twilightequalslove »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

Like i read above i think also that Alice may choose her own destiny...But how would she know that it was Jasper? so i think it was completely fate.

with bella na dedward it had to be destiny right? i mean she elt it the moment she saw him.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?


I dont think it is odd. Jasper respects the Volturi. I think it is because of the type of vampire he was before he met Alice and how he still struggles with the lifestyle is in now.


3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?


Yes, Its hard to pick and choose what is good and what isnt if it good foreveryone as a whole it might not be good for just one person

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

He is loyal to the Denali clan because they are like family.

He is lyal to the wolves because they want to help get ride of the bad vampires.
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Post by masochistic_kiss »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

Both, I think, are destiny, with possibly a little bit of choice, though there's more of that with Edward and Bella than with Jasper and Alice.
Alice saw Jasper quite a long time before they met, whereas the only forewarning Edward had about Bella was gossip about a new girl coming to town. Alice knew she'd love Jasper; Edward thought of Bella, at first, as another human female.
As for subsequent love, Bella and Edward's is much more challenging than Jasper and Alice's. There are constant obstacles for them, whereas Jasper and Alice haven't exactly been challenged.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

Yes, I think it's a bit odd, but maybe understandable. The Volturi are royalty--and, at one point or another, who doesn't want to be royalty? (though I'm sure the rest of us humans would be content just to be a vampire) However, it's odd that he seems reverent when the Volturi have threatened his family--even the love of his existence.
Or maybe Jasper's just jealous because they can drink blood.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

Yes, though it could possibly come down to a question of character and judgement. Look what happened at Hiroshima.
If you were a boss with an employee who was hardly ever at work and never got anything done, would you fire him? If he had children and a wife, would you still do it? It might sound mean, but I think I would.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

The wolves might be said to be the vampires' enemies, but the Cullens and the Quileutes have a treaty, whereas none exists between the two vampire covens.
Though Tanya's clan might be the closest thing the Cullens have to relatives in the vampire world, the treaty is more of an obligation. And besides, why would Carlisle avenge the death of someone who attempted to murder his soon-to-be-daughter?
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Post by nostalgicmiss »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
I think they are both destiny, no matter how you look at it, destiny has a hand in our fates. Each were made for the other, they are a perfect match. There is no fighting that, it would be like the wolves trying to fight imprinting. It can't be done, the gravitational pull to one another is too great. Their souls are bound together.
:oops: Sorry, got carried away. I'm a pathetic Romantic!

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
No because he knows the history well, and I sure he realizes the the consequences if they weren't around to monitor the situation. He spoke eloquently about the Wars of the south, I'm sure he's aware of just how bad things can get.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
Unfortunately yes. I could go on a rant but it would be pointless and completely off topic. :oops:

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
No matter which way you look at it, Carlisle is an honorable man, he sticks to his word. He didn't take sides in that argument, he removed himself. It's the only thing he could have done. He was not willing to break the treaty, and he explained as much to Tanya on the phone. This left their options based on what they wanted to do, he gave them a choice. I think he is like Bella when it comes to that situation. . . He is Switzerland!
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Re: Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Post by Dejavu »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
Nope I think both of them are pretty much destiny..I mean I think if Edward could have chosen not to love her and need her he would have...

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
Well maybe since the way he was 'raised' he admires the Volturi for keeping everything in order? I don't really know about that one..

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
Maybe..with great power comes great responsibility..*add on* and tougher choices to make... haha just quoted spider man

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
Well the Denali clan are his friends and the werewolves are more of business partners..He would of course feel more loyalty towards his friends.
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Post by Flamethrower »

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?


Jasper, in his vampire life, was born into pure militaristic thoughts, and it is expected that he admires the feeling of rank and government that the Volturi show. He is impressed with how smoothly their system runs, and how effectively they keep the world in check.

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