Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
Alphie
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Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Post by Alphie »

Many thanks to Spooncha and Echo 1 for the questions.

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
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virginiax7
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Re: Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Post by virginiax7 »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
While I think you would call Jasper and Alice's meeting destiny, I think you could call Bella and Edward's a little bit of destiny and choice. To Jasper, the idea of not going with Alice (to our knowledge) never crossed his mind. For Edward, he had to choose if he wanted to be near Bella or stay away from her. But, in their case, you could say that it was destiny that brough Bella to Forks, etc.
2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
Considering his previous lifestyle, no. In his world, the Volturi kept the peace, and while they may not have been the "good guys", they weren't the bad guys either.
3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
I think that people in positions of power often find themselves faced with choices that either hurt some people and help the greater good, or don't seem to hurt anyone, but impact a lot of people over time. They have to decide which choice is going to be more "painless" in the long run.
4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
I think that while Carlisle considers the members of the Denali clan his good friends, he knows that Laurent wasn't a very good guy, and feels the wolves shouldn't be attacked for doing their job, which was protect people (Bella) from vampires.
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Post by Caitlin »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

That's the odd thing about Alice -- I feel like she makes her own destiny, in a way. It's not "destiny" as much as just "skipping steps", in my opinion. Had she met Jasper if she hadn't practically camped out until he arrived? Yes, probably, or else she wouldn't have known about him. Either way she meets him. Is that destiny? No, it's just Alice being Alice, and cutting out some of the middle steps, to jump from the beginning right to the end. Sort of what she wanted to do at the end of Twilight, actually, with Bella. As far as Alice is concerned, Bella's becoming a vampire one way or another. What's the harm in skipping a few steps and making it happen now instead of in two years or whatever?

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

I never really saw the Volturi as evil. More efficient. They have a goal (keeping the human population ignorant of the existance of vampires) and they do what they have to do to meet that goal. End of discussion. Little things like morals and compassion don't factor into their decisions. But, when you think about it, their goal does help a lot more than it hurts (case in point: this chapter, where it's revealed what the world would be like without them). Are they to be revered for that? Maybe, maybe not. But I can certainly see why Jasper would feel that way.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

Unfortunately, yes. That's life.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
I really feel for Carlisle here. He has to make a tough decision, basically deciding if his morals are worth the life of his family. The wolves did nothing wrong, in fact helped out by saving the life of someone most of the Cullens have come to regard as family. They don't deserve death, they deserve a metal. Yet, as far as Carlisle knows at this point, the Denali coven is their best, possibly even only, hope against the newborns. Without help, the Cullens will win, but at the cost of lives. This point is drive home over and over again. It would have been really easy for Carlisle to reason here that the wolves, as things stood at the time, are nothing to him, maybe even are a hindrance (after all, if it wasn't for that treaty line, they would have caught Victoria a long time ago). But he took the high road, instead insisting on doing the right thing, and it all turned out well in the end, even without the Denali coven's help.

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Post by dragonrider713 »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

That's a hard question for me to answer because I feel like our choices play a role in our destiny; I don't think everything is predetermined.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

I never really thought about that before. I dunno what I think about that.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

I definitely think so. Sometimes you have to do harm before you can do good.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

The Denali clan have always been good friends to the Cullens. The wolves by nature want to kill the Cullens. It seems like it would be an easy decision, but it's not. The wolves killed Laurent because that's what they were made to do. Carlisle can see that and is probably glad they did because it saved Bella. The Denali clan wants to kill the wolves for doing what they were meant to do. Also, Carlisle knows that Bella is friends with the wolves and knows that letting them be killed would cause her pain.
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Post by the vampire girl »

1. They both had a choice, but for both of them, the option of staying away from the one they loved was never really something to consider. It was meant to be, but in order for it to be, they had to make it work. And they both did.

2.In a way, because Jasper is so sickened with killing, which is essentially all the Volturi do. But Jasper must also have respect for the Volturi, because not only do they put up with killing, which probably means more to Jasper than to most people, they are so good at it, and he can't help but to admire their skills as fighters, and at keeping all vampires in the world under control.

3. It depends on the situation. Is the "greater" good greater than the harm that could be caused by the decision to pursue the greater good? Sometimes.

4. While the Denali clan are friends of Carlisle, Carlisle chooses the wolves mainly because the wolves have respected their treaty, and killed a vampire who was about to harm Bella, a member of their family. Carlisle would not attack innocent children, regardless of what form they take, for a little help from friends.
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Post by littleyellowporsche »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

I LOVE the way that Alice and Jasper met!!! These two are adorable and are the perfect match for eachother. I think that we all have a choice with what life gives us. I dont think that Alice's original intention was to fall in love with Jasper when she first met, or "saw" him, but just that she had to find him. Same with Bella and Edward. Both were draw to each other, but made the choice to fall in love with time.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?


No,because with his past, he knows the rules of the Volturi and how to handle them. Jasper is a smart man, and is intimidated by the Volturi just like any vampire is.


3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

I think that people in power never know what they are getting themselves into until it happens. But any person, whether it be a person in a powerful position, or just a regular person, will some day have to make a hard and ruthless decison. It happens every day.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

The Denali clan are friends and allies to the Cullen's. With the pack, Carlisle has to respect them because they have had a past with making deals and allowing they to live side by side.
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Post by rainydays_alanna »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?
i think it's so funny and cute how alice and jasper met. i believe that every person has a certain path or destiny made for them but it's your choice to follow on that path and it just so happens that this was the thing for both. alice didn't have to meet jasper but she made the choice to b/c she realized that it was meant to be, it just so happened that she also fell in love with him. same thing for bella and edward, bella didn't have to move to forks and edward didn't have to come back from alaska but they both made that choice so now they're together.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?
no i don't. i think that he just respects them like all vampires should and also he sort of finds it intimidating how they can clean up wars so easily and without trouble.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?
yes i do believe that and i also believe that everyone has to make hard and ruthless decisions like someone in a powerful position.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.
the Denali clan are somewhat like family to Carlisle b/c they are both "vegetarians" and can relate to each other by what they live through every day. The werewolves are people that he has made deals and packs with so they can live somewhat peacefully.
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Re: Chapter Thirteen: Newborn

Post by vampireartist »

[quote="Alphie"]Many thanks to Spooncha and Echo 1 for the questions.

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

well they both have a strong love towards one another. and well they both had to do with destiny AND choice. jasper didn't have to stay with Alice but he could feel the conection between them and the hope for a different life style. bella doesn't have to be with edward and edward could leave her again if he felt it was the right thing.
2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

no not at all. he knows that in the south he was breaking the rules and that he did slaughter many people. in some ways i think he wished they would've come and desroyed him at the times but now he doesn't. he has great respect for them.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

most definatley! the volturi destroy vampires all the time for causing trouble. but they know that they have been bisbehaving and that they have been warned not to.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

well the denali clan took him in and cared for him. he almost owes them in a way so he has respect. with the wolves he made a treaty with them thatt they have stuck to unquestionably well and he is deeply grateful. he wants to keep that "trust" with them to keep the peace.
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Post by melting into you »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice?

Edward is almost by choice and destiny. He knew the minute he saw her that her blood was more sweet than anything he smelled. He wasn't looking for love, it was destiny, but he made it a choice.

Alice and Jasper were destiny. I love their story. Jasper would be nothing without the destiny laid out to save him. Alice was and is his destiny. He knows it. Alice and Jasper were not choice.

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi?

Not at all if anyone knows about the Volturi, he does. There is a huge respect there for them from Jasper.

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good?

Of course just like Kings, Queens, anyone in that much power has to.

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves.

Carlisle's loyalty is equal in different ways. He is a man of peace and loyality. With the Denali that is his clan. That's a given. With the were wolves he understands the peace treaty and respected them immediately when they were protecting Bella. Bella is family, Carlisle understands that and is a peaceful man. A good man.
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Post by ACullenForever »

1. Compare and contrast the Jasper/Alice meeting and subsequent love with that of Bella and Edward? Is one destiny and the other choice? Well, they kind of of both both for each couple Alice didn't have to go to the diner to find Jasper but she did and that how she did meet him, Bella and edward I just don't know, More by choice that edward decide to face bella and that he saved her and chance that bela was wacthing him closey that they were together. I like Jaspers and alice meeting better(more romantica i think)(i bad at spelling)

2. Do you think it's odd that Jasper has a tone of reverence in his voice when he speaks of the Volturi? No not really

3. Do you feel that sometimes people in a powerful position have to make hard and ruthless decisions for the "greater" good? Yes, i think we all have to make those decisions in our short lives

4. Discuss Carlisle's loyalty to the Denali clan, versus his loyalty to the wolves. I wish he let them kill the wolves so they wouldn't hav to deal with the threaty anymore, but it cool to have the loralty to the mutts to denali clan, but he should have not have picked the mutts
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