Chapter Twelve: Time

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
hello__starshine
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Post by hello__starshine »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

I think he realizes that if he doesn't change her then there are other people who are willing, i.e. Alice or Carlisle. And I bet there's a tiny part of him that would feel weird kissing a 67-year old Bella. xDD

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

I think there's a lot more. Like the others have said, he -was- raised in a society that put a lot of stress on being married. He also wants Bella to have as many human experiences as she can before he changes her. And then there's that hope in him about Heaven.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

All her life, Renee has pounded into her brain that getting married right out of high school is a BIG no-no. The thought of marrying anyone at 18, even Edward, basically goes against a very strong belief handed down from her mother.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

Edward can't read Bella's mind. How does he know for sure that she really does love him? All of his vampire years he's thought of himself as a monster. How can he believe that she loves a monster?

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

Bella is his in Edward's mind. He can't let Alice or Carlisle change her. If anyone is going to inject any bodily secretions into her, it's going to be him. :wink:

mugglemom
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Post by mugglemom »

hello__starshine wrote: Bella is his in Edward's mind. He can't let Alice or Carlisle change her. If anyone is going to inject any bodily secretions into her, it's going to be him. :wink:
that is too freakin' funny!!!! LMBO!!!!!!!

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To Change or Not to Change? That is the Question...

Post by Ana Cristina »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?
I think that Edward has realized by now how determined Bella is to forsake her mortality in exchange for "forever" with him. Plus, she'd be a lot more durable, as he says, if she were changed, not so much of a danger-magnet anymore! But also I wonder if he's afraid of losing her, since he saw how attached she became to Jacob during his absence. Hmm, this question is definitely food for thought!

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?
I think this is closely related to his insecurity about Bella's intentions for her wanting to become a vampire. As he tells her, he was afraid that she was more into attaining the immortality than into him (which is just insane - hello, Edward, you dazzle her, OK?). It's not something we think about as Edward fans, but he is a very sensitive soul with a lot of emotional baggage. I think we see him as this perfect, indestructible being who's completely got it together. You try living for 108 years and see if you aren't affected, super vampire powers and all. Sure, he's secure about some things, like his speed and agility, but deep down I believe he's not so confident. Especially when it comes to Bella.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?
You see this a lot in young people from broken homes. I'm a teacher, and I hear students from divorced families say they don't believe in marriage, don't want to get married. I think she was really affected by her parents' split, despite the fact that she was very young when it occurred. She might not realize this beyond the subconscious level. Maybe this is something she will come to better understand and come to terms with in BD.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?
Again, I believe that Edward is insecure when it comes to Bella. She's his weakness, his Achilles heel, if you will.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?
This is the integral dilemma of the Twilight series. All of the Cullen family (excluding Carlisle) was changed in a life-or-death situation, where it was either spare their life and turn them into an immortal or allow them to die from life-threatening injuries. None of them really had a choice. Despite this, you really get the sense that Edward worries for his soul. I wonder if this is because of his status as a vampire or because of the atrocities he committed when he was a "young" vampire, feeding on other humans. If the latter is the case, maybe he won't feel so bad transforming Bella on the condition that she maintain a "vegetarian" diet. However ... he could also be concerned that his status as an immortal is an irrevocable sin in the eyes of God, in which case all vampires are intrinsically damned.
Whatever the case, I think he's prepared to go through with it because he's seen how life has had a way of bringing him and Bella back together, of showing him that perhaps they're meant for each other. I don't see Edward as morally weak, in fact I think it took enormous strength to make this decision, and you see that moral strength in his insistence that Bella will be different - she will have a choice when it comes to her becoming a vampire. Also, if he were morally weak, he wouldn't be wrestling so much with this issue, he would've just gone through with it. It's a sign of what a good soul he is that he has thought over the matter so much.


**After writing this last answer, it reminded me of a paper I wrote on Hamlet once, about Hamlet's indecision and how it may be a sign of moral weakness. But I still think Edward is morally stronger than Hamlet ever was.
Last edited by Ana Cristina on Fri May 30, 2008 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by dazzled&breathless »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?
He finally is come to realize that if he wants to keep control he needs to agree with Bella. She already has Carlisle's promise of changing her, if he wants to keep it delayed a little longer he has to promise that he will change her. Also I think he sees that Bella is figuring out what she can't live without once it is done, so she is really thinking about what she is going to lose because of the change.
2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?
He is from the early 1900's, that is how they did it back then. Also, he wants her to be tied to him so that their relationship isn't seen as just convienent and not love, by getting married they show everyone how much they love and are devoted to eachother.
3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?
Partly because Renee has said that you shouldn't get married young. Bella has seen what it did to both Charlie and Renee, and she hopes it doesn't end up that way with Edward. Perhaps her insecurities about how much Edward does love her is also why she is so panicked. She doesn't want their marriage and love to end.
4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?
He is insecure, everyone has something they are insecure about. A small part of Edward still can't understand why Bella would love a 'monster' like him. Like Bella said, Edward doesn't see himself clearly in that she loves him with her whole heart. Also, Bella is so intent on being changed- the fact that she is willing to have Carlisle do it and then she panics when he makes the deal to change her after they are married- it makes it seem like she is only focused on immortality.
5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?
It isn't morally weak. He sees it as selfish, but it isn't like he is ruining her life forever. Once she becomes practiced as a vampire she can visit her family (hopefully). He isn't morally weak because he is prepared to take responsibility for his actions and help solve problems as they arise.
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Well, [i]I[/i] think...

Post by xxSwitzerlandxx »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

Edward knows he cant live without Bella! Even though he is willing to sacrify himself for her, it hurts him terribly to be without her: he was going to commit suicide for heaven's sake! And after everything that happen in New Moon, its easy to tell that neither can Bella. Edward left her once and he caused her so much pain & suffering that he knows that he can never do it again, even if he still thinks its not safe for her. And since their relationship is not "safe" and he knows that wat bella wants is him (he is always trying to please her), he has run out of choices. Not only did he want to keep her forever himself (even though he thinks its selfish), she also wants this as much as he wants to be w/ her.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Of course the marriage is also an excuse to give Bella time to change her mind, but its not only that. Edward was born in a completly different time period, where society had a different perspective of wat was acceptable & wat was not. In his time, getting married at such a young age was completely normal (as he says himself). He was raised w/ this frame of mind: boy meets girl. boy loves girl. boy marries girl. There was no: boy moves in w/ girl or boy turns girl into [put mythological monster name here] interphase. Even though he has to adapt to the different times, he still can't change how he was raised and to him, marriage is a VERY big deal. I guess he feels like he's breaking some kind of rule if he has a more deep relationship (like living w/ her after changing her into a vampire) without an official wedding. So even though he's not to thrilled about her wanting to be a vampire (and "loose her soul" :P), he is willing to do it if he gets to do it as morally as he possibly can.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

Charlie & Renee's early marriage didnt go so well, as we all know. She was raised w/ her mom telling her that it was the biggest mistake of her life! not only did she tell her this, she also lived a messed up life and, even though it probably had nothing to do w/ the divorce, Bella may have thought that it might have had something to do w/ it. Besides, today's society has disprestiged marriage so much that it seems quite stupid & abnormal in her eyes. But of course, if she loves this man as much as we all know, she shouldnt hesitate as much as she is. So yea, society will turn its back on you and people will gossip but as long as you are w/ the one you love, does it matter? It really shouldnt. So i believe that Bella is so opposed to this marriage, not because she doesnt love edward more than everything in the world, because subconsciously she know that *SPOILER* she loves Jacob, too. And yes, she loves Edward more, but that doesnt change her feelings toward Jake.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

Edward has never thought of himself worthy enough for Bella. As unbelievable as it is, to me at least, he seems quite insecure about bella's love toward him. Not only does he believe that he's not the best choice for her, whether it's because of her safety or/and her soul, but he also believes that she can find someone better than him (if that's possible!) if she wanted to. Besides, since she didnt want to marry him, or atleast she wasnt eager to, he doubted even more if she loved him as he thought. She only talked about becoming a vampire and she was real excited about that part but everytime he mentioned marriage she backed off.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

Edward has refered to himself and vampires in general as essentially selfish creatures, no matter how humane or unselfish they(the cullens; specially edward) might be. So even though he recognizes that this is a selfish desire, he still wants to be w/ Bella forever. And since Bella is all for it, and he is all about pleasing her, he caved in easier. I do think its kind of morally weak of him if you see it from his moral-point-of-view. To bella, its just great! but he knows that, according to him, she'll lose her soul and yet he is more willing to do it now.
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Post by It_is_a_NewMoon »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

Because then she can't have a hope of a relationship with Jacob. He is a man. lol

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Oh yeah, I never thought of that. Why does she HAVE to be human? I don't know, tradition? To speed her up. It's a mystery.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

It's a huge step for us humans, tying yourself to someone for forever. A piece of paper saying so, written down in black and white. It's extremely official...and so very difficult for someone as young as Bella. (made worse by the fact that she has the mental-age of a 40 year-old lol)

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

Edward is a very insecure person, don't forget he's been alone for about 80 years. He can't imagine how Bella could love a 'monster' such as him.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

He says it's selfish, he is a selfish creature, (he's said so before)it doesn't mean he couldn't bear to do it.
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Post by CamberXite »

. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

Because he knows if he doesn't , someone else will.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Because Edward is old fashioned. He wants her to be married before they bake..

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

Because she didn't want to end up like her parents.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?


Because he's nervous about it all, he knows that she doesn't want to grow old.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?


Because Edward doesn't want to doom her! He's thinking of her family...
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Post by Lolalovesbugs33 »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long? He now realizes that he cant be without her he needs her in his life forever. He thinks that HE should be the one to change her because if he doesnt someone else will
2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her? Its important becuase edward was born in a different time... they didnt have sex before they married then, remember how bella wanted one thing before he turned her? thats wat she wanted, to have sex with him. but he would like to go about it the old fashion way.
3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely? i think she was just scared about what people would say about her, maybe she was finally realizing that this was it, she wouldnt be human for to much longer
4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him? I dont think that he does anymore. i mean shes doing this for him, to be with him she loves him and is giving up everything for him
5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him? Not at all, he needs her. Besides id dont think its him to blame... bella is the one thats pressuring him to do this, she wants to become a vampire. :D
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Post by masochistic_kiss »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

He's finally gotten it through his head that he can really, really have her forever, and he's decided to do the "selfish" thing as long as she's alright with it. Then, with their talk about marriage, souls, and virtue, he might have realized that she really does comprehend it.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Edward can't be as sure of Bella as he is of himself, or really of anyone else (because, of course, he can't get into her head.) To add to that, she's human, and human emotions don't come out as strongly in, well, humans as they do in vampires. He's seen hundreds of relationships from the inside, but none of them have even been able to compare to Alice and Jasper's, or Esme and Carslile's. This way, he has a sort of solid promise from her. No, I don't think there's any strategy.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

Bella's very... embarass-able, and she doesn't like it. Imagine the thought of that to her... You're walking across a lumpy carpet in heels, of all things, in which you also have to stand in for several hours--not to mention dance in them... And then there's teh fact that Renee and Charlie's marriage had a horrible ending. As she says, in her mind, "marriage" and "forever" don't really mix.
Hmm... I'm not really sure that she doesn't have more than what she's saying. Knowing Bella, she probably does, but doesn't understand her own reasons. Like with the magnets.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

When Edward left Bella, he hurt her. Very, very badly. How could he know if, this whole time, she really didn't love him, but was trying to become immortal for some sort of enormous revenge? Again, he can't be as sure of Bella as he can be of other people for the reasons of her being human and him not being able to read her mind.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

He understands that they can't find another option that will give them both peace. Bella, being stubborn, would pitch a fit the rest of her life if he made her stay human. And as for leaving... well, we all saw how that went down. No, it's not morally weak. This is something he has to be incredibly strong to make a decision about.
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Post by mushroom_ravioli »

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?


Because of Bella's personal experience, marriage has a bad connotation. As she says, "it was the kiss of death for Charlie and Renee." Bella has seen firsthand how marriage ruined her parents' relationship, and it's not that she's worried that will happen with Edward (because she knows she will alway love him--forever), she just sees Edward as so much more than an annoying husband. In her mind, husband is this little man that fights with the wife. She and Edward are soulmates and totally in love...in her experience, true love has no place in marriage.

Bella is also concerned about what people will say. Everyone is going to think she is pregnant, and gossip uncontrollably. HOwever, this aspect is only secondary.

What do you all think?
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