Chapter Twelve: Time

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
Alphie
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Chapter Twelve: Time

Post by Alphie »

Thanks to December for her help with the questions!

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?
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Re: Chapter Twelve: Time

Post by virginiax7 »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?
I think the reason he's agreeing to change her is because he knows it's going to take her forever to say yes to this marriage thing, and that she'll try and talk him out of marrying her.
2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?
I think it is in part to dely her, but at the same time something more. There's one part where he tells her than in 100 years, when she'll have a different perspective, he'll tell her why it was so important for him to marry her first.
3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?
Well, we all know that Renee can probably be pretty scary if she wanted to be, and I'm sure Bella knows that her mom isn't going to like the idea of her getting married. Also, I think she is in some part worried about what everyone is going to think about her getting married at 18.
4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?
I think (like he says to Bella) Edward also sometimes doesn't view himself very well. I think it's still hard for him to believe that Bella would give up everything just to be with him, with no other reason than that. You know how Bella can never understand why Edward would love her? Maybe this is the same thing from Edward's point of view: he can't understand why she would give up everything just to be with him, and with no ulterior motive.
5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?
I don't think it is morally weak of him, because he knows if he doesn't do it, Bella will get Alice or Carlisle to do it. This is what she wants, and if it will make her happy, then I think he's prepared to do it, even if he doesn't fully want to.
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dragonrider713
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Post by dragonrider713 »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

I think that Edward realizes that Bella will not stop trying to get changed, and that he isn't the only one who would do it. He doesn't want to be without her, and the easiest way to stay with her is to change her.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

He wants to be sure that she wants to be with him before he changes her. There is defintiely more to it than just being a strategy to delay her.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

There is more to her reaction than she is saying, but, at the time, I don't think she was aware of it because she didn't realize that Edward wasn't the only one she loves.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

I really don't know why he would think that. Maybe since she wants to be changed, but doesn't want to get married.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

I wouldn't say that it's morally weak. He doesn't want to lose her, so, although he believes it's selfish, he'll do whatever he can to keep her.
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Post by the vampire girl »

1. Edward knows that if he doesn't do it, Carlisle will because of what happened in New Moon. Edward want to delay it, obviously, but he also is using this to his advantage to marry Bella.

2. Again, he wants to delay it. He also wants to give Bella the human experience of marrying while he can. He wants Bella to officially belong to him.

3. There was more to it than what Bella admitts to herself. She is scared of what people will think, but there is more to it. She's scared making a choice that will make her belong only to Edward, and it scares her in part because of Jacob, and because she is so scared to leave her life behind at this point.

4. Edward does not see himself or Bella clearly. He thinks Bella could do much better than him, and maybe even that what happened in NM was because she was in shock, and because she had missed him, and was just getting used to having him back. He can't understand how such a "perfect" human like Bella could love something like him. Wanting immortality just makes more sense to him.

5. I can see how it's morally weak, but Edward is at the point where it doesn't matter to him. He loves Bella, she loves him, and she has proven that she is ready and willing to be changed. This is the next logical step for them to take.
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Post by littleyellowporsche »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

I think that Edward has always wanted Bella to become immortal with him so he can keep her forever. Bella is also a very stubborn girl and I think that Edward knows that if he doesnt change Bella, then she will go to Carlisle or Alice.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?


Because he wants her to have as many "human" experiences as possible. One thing that I think is also in the back of Edward's mind, is that if something should go wrong during the change, Bella will still be his.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

I think that her parents have scarred her a little about the wedding. When your parents dont make it through a marraige, it can be scary and have an effect on the child. I also think there is the slightest though of Jacob in the back of Bella's mind as well.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

Because Edward is still having a hard time understanding the fact that he too has a soul...just like Bella will still have a soul. (that whole "soul" issue makes me think of Angel...sorry for the random thought there). Edward still thinks that he will somehow destroy Bella's life if he turns her.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

He is stealing Bella away from the rest of the people she knows just so she can be with him forever...i can see where he would think that would be a little selfish...But I like selfish men who want their woman all to themselves!

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Post by rainydays_alanna »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?
because he couldn't handle option one which was to completely ignore her which he tried twice (beginning of the book and whenever he left her in new moon). he also tried to stick to the plan of her staying human but that's too dangerous for their relationship and he can't handle the fact that she is so fragile and that he is inflicting all of this danger into her life. so that leaves him with option three and that is to change her into a vampire, this is also what bella wants and will make her happy. Edward wants all that he get from this agreement which is why he's making bella agree to all of his terms.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?
i think it has a lot to do with virtue and that he doesn't want bella to do anything that would keep her from going to heaven even whenever she is turned into a vampire and therefore she is meant to go to hell. but he wants her to have a spotless record.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?
there is more to her reaction to the idea of marrying edward but i don't think she fully understands it at the time and just uses the excuse of what she told edward about renee not wanting bella to be the girl who got married right after high school.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?
the fact that she wouldn't want to marry him might have sent this wave of thoughts through his mind and also he still doesn't understand why bella would want him just like bella doesn't understand why edward would want her.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?
i don't think that it is morally weak of him because even if edward wouldn't change her alice or carlisle would do it and i think he would prefer to do it himself. also bella has shown that it's what she wants and it's also what he wants.
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Post by mugglemom »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

I think his reasons for agreeing to change Bella are similar to hers. He wants his venom in her. It's just another way to bond them together.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Edward was from a time when marriage meant something, when it was highly valued and sought after. And it is yet another way to bond them.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

I definitely believe that she is scarred from her parents' marriage experience, and probably her mother's failed relationships as well. The divorce of your parents leaves a VERY lasting impression.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

When someone else love you more than you love yourself, it can be very hard to understand and accept, even if you love that same person in the same way. It's hard to feel worthy of that love that you are receiving.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

I think that he has tried everything in his power to deter Bella's desire to become a vampire because he feels that it is so selfish for him to want her to join him. He knows what it is like and what she will be missing out on. But he loves her more than anything and wants to be with her forever.

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Post by brinicole10 »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

i think part of it is probably the volturi... but mainly it's that he wants it so bad for himself as he said. he remembers what it feels like to lose her and he doesn't want that to happen again. [if the question is referring to the actual act itself- as in, not letting carlisle do it, but changing her himself- then i say his reasons are the same as bella's. she'll sort of belong to him in a physical sense, and he loves her so much that he wants to do it himself.]

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

he really wants her to be his wife, because he loves her that much. to bella, and probably most of us because of the society we live in where divorce is accepted as the norm, marriage doesn't equal forever. but to him, because of the society he was born and raised in, marriage does mean that you are together with that person for the rest of your life. so, even tho he knows she loves him more than life itself, he wants that symbolism before he changes her and it really does become "together forever." irreversibly together forever.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

again, it was all in how she was raised. her mother pounded it into her head to take marriage seriously and not go through with it so young, and to get married as soon as high school is over is definitely very young. she also hates attention, and there is no spotlight equal to that of a bride on her wedding day. [also, she doesn't want people to think they're rushing into marriage because she's pregnant.] i think she understands her reasons completely.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

he wants her to have a soul and a shot at heaven. she is his world, and when you love someone that much, you want the absolute most for them. he doesn't quite know where he stands on his beliefs of afterlife for vampires, and he doesn't want to take away her soul. also, edward is edward, and for over 100 years, he's been right about almost everything. after all of that, i would imagine a big ego builds up, and it would be hard for him to admit that he was wrong about something so big.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

in some ways, he feels like it's selfish for him to want her as a vampire because he wants to be with her so badly. but bella wants it too. he's done a lot to deter her choice- by at first completely refusing, and then delaying everything to make sure she's positive about the choice. and he's not doing it to her, he's doing it for her.
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Post by melting into you »

. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

Because of several reasons; he knows if he doesn't she will go to Alice or one of the other's. She already got Carlise's word on that promise. For the same reason Bella wants to be turned by Edward, she'll have his veron in her, they are bonded in a very special private way and most importantly, he has found out she is very stubborn and she will get her way, one way or another, might a well be him on his terms.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Edward is old school. Marriage before sex. Let her be pure with marriage before he turns her. The only strategy I can see is he knows she's against getting married so young so this would delay her being turned for a while.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

I think seeing Charlie all alone, her mother so messed up and the marriage not working and what it did to them both plays into it, plus Renee kept telling her never to marry young, it has stuck in Bella's head. I didn't see Jacob as her panic to say no.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

He's insecure. He might be old in vampire years, but he's still a 17 when it comes to real love, this is his first love. We are all insecure.

5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?

I think Edward is thinking of her family, of all the things he wants her to do like college and taking that away from her. I don't think he's morally weak at all. He's tried to reason with Bella over and over again, she's stubborn, she gave him no choice. He doesn't want to lose her or have her turned when she's not ready by someone else.
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Post by leiahlaloa »

1. Why is Edward now willing to change Bella into a vampire (provided she marries him) after being dead set against it for so long?

I've wondered about this as well and discussed it a fair amount elsewhere. I believe that he wants to be in control. It's not about buying time anymore. It's about him wanting her to be ready... and apparently she's not.

2. Why is it still so important to him that she marry him before he changes her? Is there more to this than a strategy to delay her?

Bella brings out the humanity in Edward. And Edward is from the turn-of-the-century era when men were getting married to their sweethearts before they left for WWI--a last act of love in case they died or a comforting thought that there was someone to come back to. That's Edward's humanity and I feel like he wants to honor it. It's just kind of switched up. Bella is the one who is... "going away." heh.

3. Why is Bella so panicked at the thought of marrying Edward? Is there more to her reaction than she is saying? Does she actually understand her own reasons completely?

I think everyone has some of these feelings. Edward can bury his easily because his humanity only peaks out at the edges of his reactions, but Bella's all human at the moment and while she might not want to voice it or think it, she has a little bit of that cold feet bug. I think everyone has that question "Am I sure that I want to live out the rest of my life with this person?" I'm not saying Bella isn't sure. I'm just saying that's everyone's reaction to marriage. The slight fear of the unknown.

4. After the epiphanies of NM, how could Edward still imagine being immortal was more important to Bella than her love for him?

I haven't quite figured that one out yet. All we've heard from Bella is that she'll always want Edward. I feel like she's voiced it several times as well. I can only imagine that Edward--under all that confidence--has some inner self doubt.
5. Edward says that changing Bella is the most selfish thing he will ever do. Why is he nevertheless prepared to do it? Is this morally weak of him?


This more has to do with the fact that he wants to do what Bella wishes. He wants to please her. He may say that its selfish, but by allowing her to persuade him (even if he did place a bargain on it) he is giving her what she wants.

Moral weakness? I think no. Just weakness, in general, for Bella.
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