Chapter Eleven: Legends

Our chapter by chapter discussion of Eclipse.
rainydays_alanna
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Post by rainydays_alanna »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?
she is human and can't do anything "supernatural" to save the ones she loves and she would do anything to help them, even kill herself. the third wife resembles the fact that bella can help whenever it seems like she can't.

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.
i have never even thought of that possibility but i'm sure it's possible.

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?
i think he's trying to get her to see that she's part of thier family and that she belongs there with the werewolves more than with the cullens.

4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?
i'm in the middle of wuthering heights so i can sortof answer this question. heathcliff is horibble person that has so many bad qualities and she doesn't want to think of edward as one of those who has bad qualities. also heathcliff is one of the reasons for catherines death and she doesn't want edward to be the reason why she dies.(remember, i'm only halfway through the book)
"It's the safest time of day for us," he said, answering the unspoken question in my eyes. "The easiest time. But also the saddest, in a way...the end of another day, the return of the night. Darkness is so predictable, don't you think?" He smiled wistfully. " I like the night. Without the dark, we'd never see the stars."

melting into you
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Post by melting into you »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?

she is the only human. she would do anything to save someone she loves, even if it meant losing herself to death. It's the one thing she can do.

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.

I never thought he would still be alive today. The story didn't seem to imply that.

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?

I think Jacob wanted Bella to hear the wolves history since all she knew was the cold ones and seemed to accept it, almost making him feel she felt the werewolves were bad. He knew she would walk away thinking differently once she heard the stories. He wanted her to feell as proud as he does.

4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?

Because Healthcliff was cruel, heartless and that's not how she sees Edward. She feels he's the exact opposite and would never hurt her.
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break4jake
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Post by break4jake »

1. Well obviously, because she was just a regular human, with no special powers. Also because she was in love with someone, and she loved him enough to give her life for him. Bella would willingly give her life for Edward.
2. It's possible, but I don't think so. It's a very confusing thing. On one hand you have the knowledge you know, that werewolves don't age until they stop morphing for a long period of time, and we don't know if he ever unmorphed. He could still be running around like a big dog right now.
On the other hand, logic is against it. How could someone, even a werewolf, live THAT long?
3. I think he just wanted time with her. And he knew that Edward can't come to La Push, so it would just be him and Bella. (well the other people at the bonfire would be there but you get my point)
4. I think it was just the part she read. It was probably exactly how Edward was feeling at the time, and Bella was probably worried about Jake. It was kind of a wake up call that Edward was so very ready to kill Jacob.
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It_is_a_NewMoon
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Post by It_is_a_NewMoon »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?

She is totally in love with her husband to be, would do anything for him - even kill herself to save him from death. And she knows, perhaps she could be in clearing attracting all the 'omnivore' vampires. Risking her life. To keep Edward safe.

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.

No, because I bet at some point he gave up his werewolf ways. So that he could age and die with his wife. Or whoever he loved.

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?

Her feelings toward him prolly. How sad.

4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?

Because she always thought of Heathcliff as the bad guy. Of course Edward can do no wrong in her eyes. (and mine) :wink:
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NovaAlbion
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Re: Chapter Eleven: Legends

Post by NovaAlbion »

Alphie wrote:1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?
Bella says of her, "Just a human woman, with no special gifts or powers. Physically weaker and slower than any of the monsters in the story. But she had been the key, the solution. She'd saved her husband, her young sons, her tribe." The Third Wife, although relatively weak as Bella views herself, was yet able to make a difference with her well timed sacrifice. Bella is willing to sacrifice herself to save those she loves - James/Renee, Volturi/Edward, and later, Victoria & Riley/Seth & Edward.
Alphie wrote:2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.
While it is possible, it is unlikely. As others have pointed out, as long as he continued to phase, he wouldn't age. However, as a "Protector", he would feel his commitment to the tribe. Even if he didn't live with the tribe, he would have to stay close enough in order to provide that protection. There are, apparently, no further legendary or remembered contacts with the tribe. Considering the range of the pack mental link (300+ miles) and the fact that he would have to be within that range to be able to offer the tribe any protection or assistance, it is certain that he hadn't either returned to that range or had, eventually, died. If he was still living, Taha Aki's assistance would certainly have helped Sam.
Alphie wrote:3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?
I am a great believer in people having multiple motives for anything that they do or fail to do. They may not be aware of all of their motives when they act, but the motives are there.

While there have been times when he has exhibited some cunning, Jacob is, generally, a pretty straight forward and open guy. It did not seem to be premeditated as the invitation was tossed out at the last second as he was leaving. When Bella hesitates , he reassures her (security) and teases her (permission). Yes, he is trying to spend time with her (can't win the girl if you don't see her and the other guy does). It might even occur to him that this is a good "public relations" opportunity for the good guys (werewolves). The werewolf "fireside" also provides a warm, wholesome, positive "human" experience and reinforces her relationships with her Quileute friends as part of his "Bella stay human" campaign. He is probably offering her a little downtime/stress relief.

Ultimately, I doubt that much of this was conscious. Probably, all he was thinking about was, "Hey, here's an opportunity to spend time with Bella and have a good time with my friends."
Alphie wrote:4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?
As has been mentioned, she does not see Edward as flawed where there are few redeeming qualities about Heathcliff. Also, she probably is uncomfortable being equated to Catherine. While Bella sees herself as flawed, she probably sees herself as, at least in some aspects of character, as better than Catherine
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Post by CamberXite »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?

She's in love with him , she would do anything for him , even if it meant risking her own life..

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.


I don't think so , the story kind of led me to believe that he had died or something..

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?


I think he was trying to make her see that werewolves aren't bad at all and that she belongs with them , not with the Cullens.

4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?

Because Healthcliff was a jerk , and Bella knows that Edward is nothing like that!
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mrs.toricullen
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Post by mrs.toricullen »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?
Bella's completely in love with the guy, and doesn't care if it's life or death to be with/see him.
2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.
I think he is; though only in spirit. I got the feeling he's there, communicating with the werewolves, but just not making himself "present" if you know what I mean.
3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?
Jacob's hoping that Bella's going to change her mind about werewolves, and her perspective of them, since she hangs out so much with vampires, and the vampires somewhat hate werewolves. Jacob hopes that in changing Bella's view of them, she'd leave Edward and be with him, Jacob instead.
4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?
Heathcliff ss the "bad guy" the one with no "good qualities" and "flaws". Atleast to Bella. But when she hears him compare himself to Heathcliff, Bella becomes upset because she sees Edward as stooping down to his level, and undermining himself to be something that he's clearly not.
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Post by missbrunettgirl »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?
Well, in a world full of vampires and werewolves she's normal. I think hearing about the third wife Bella saw that even though the third wife was normal she got to be extrodanary for a moment.

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.
I have already dicussed this some on another thread and i'll post some inntresting quotes here that I think might support that Taha Aki is alive. On the top of page 548 Edward tells Victoria to "look more closely....Is he[Seth] so much like the monster James tracked across Siberia?"
"Impossibel!"
"Nothing is impossible." Edward murmured.
So Victoria being so afraid of Seth might be because she and James tracked Taki Aki across Siberia. James was a good tracker and might have killed him, but the fear that Victoria shows suggest other wise. I thought that was intreasting.

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?
I think he wants her to see that the werewolves are from a good place. He also just wants to hang out and make Bella realize that he is the one for her. Did you notice how the other guest were eitherwerewolves, or imprintes
4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff
Well Heathcliff wasn't the most... stabel or nice of all the lead characters in books. Bella doesn't see Edward as a Heathcliff with such a dark personality, but Edward sees himself as this and that frightens her that Edward does see himself this way.
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Post by bloodbound »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?

Because everyone around her as "super powers" and here is a woman that only had her love for a great man and she won the victory for her tribe. Bella would rather die then let anyone, wolf human or vampire, get hurt because of her.

2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.

Possibly. If a wolf does not age in his transformed wolf form, he might be still roaming the woods. It would be a lonely life though.

3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?

That the wolves, the reservation, even being with Jacob is a better life for her. There she would have protection and be loved by the tribe. Jacob might have hoped that night around the fire would help change her mind from becoming a vampire

4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?

Heathcliff and Cathy where horrible people. If anyone has read that book, and I have, it really is not happy book. Cathy turns love away for a higher social standing. Heathcliff is all about the revenge; he is a bitter, angry man. Eward is nothing like Heathcliff.
Lady you bereft me of all words,
Only my blood speaks to you in my veins,
And there is such confusion in my powers.
William Shakespeare

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Post by dazzled&breathless »

1. In what ways does Bella identify with the third wife?
Bella is the weakest link, like the third wife, in a group of strong fighters. Also Bella feels helpless as these two worlds collide, but unlike the third wife, Bella is worried about the casualties on both sides.
2. Could Taha Aki be alive today? Discuss theories.
Because he is a spirit wolf I would guess that he would be able to live a very long time, maybe even forever because he would age so slowly. Despite these I think he is probably dead because his heart was broken so badly from the third wife (who he probably imprinted on).
3. What do you think Jacob is hoping will change by taking Bella to the meeting?
To help her understand the darker side to the vampires, that most of them do not care about a person's life but just as a food source. Also a little bit about the history of the werewolves in their relationships of spirits, animals and the battle against evil.
4. Why is Bella so disturbed by the idea of Edward's identification with Heathcliff?
The initial shock was "drink his blood" but it is the analogy that Edward won't hurt Jacob because Bella wants Jacob around. In different circumstances Edward would have removed Jacob from the picture much earlier because he was causing Bella pain, eventhough she didn't realize it. She also because she stated that Heathcliff has no redeemable qualities, that Edward places himself in the same class as Heathcliff is a shock. Bella sees Edward as a person with many good qualities, so she hates him placing him lower than he should be.
Staring into his eyes always made me feel extraordinary-- sort of like my bones were turning spongy. I was also a little lightheaded, but that could have been because I'd forgotten to keep breathing. Again.

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